SYDLINGE ALIAS WARREN OR
WARREN ALIAS SYDLINGE
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[see below]
RAYMOND J WARREN, AUTHOR OF THE HISTORY MAKING "WILDFLOWER" THE BARBARA CRAWFORD THOMPSON STORY AND THE ONLINE ENCYCLOPAEDIA OF TALL SHIPS, THE "WARREN REGISTER OF COLONIAL TALL SHIPS", HAS TRACED HIS OWN FAMILY [WHILE ALSO WORKING ON "WILDFLOWER"] TAKING IT BACK [PROVEN] TO 1617 AND HE SHOULD SOON BE ABLE TO SET HIS LINE BACK TO THE NORMAN PERIOD AND BEYOND IN ENGLAND AND FRANCE.
BELOW HE HAS ARRANGED HIS FAMILY IN THE DORSET VILLAGE OF MARNHULL THROUGH TO THEIR MIGRATION TO HAMPSHIRE AND THEN NEW ZEALAND AND FINALLY AUSTRALIA.
HIS UNCOVERING OF THE HISTORY MYSTERY SURROUNDING BARBARA CRAWFORD THOMPSON AND HER TIME ALONE WITH HEADHUNTERS IN THE TORRES STRAIT FROM 1844 TO 1849 HAS CATAPULTED HIS BOOK TO FAME IN THE UK AND EUROPE. THE BOOK IS SHOWN HERE JUST IN CASE SOME OF HIS FOLLOWERS MIGHT LIKE TO PURCHASE A VERY GOOD HISTORIC READ. THOSE INTERESTED IN THE BOOK IN HARD COVER OR PAPERBACK MIGHT LIKE TO CONTACT THE AUTHOR ON ray.j.warren@hotmail.com
BARBARA THOMPSON CASTAWAY, ALONE WITH HEAD HUNTERS
THE BOOK "WILDFLOWER" THE BARBARA CRAWFORD THOMPSON STORY COVERS THE LIFE OF BARBARA THOMPSON, A 12-YEAR-OLD SCOTTISH GIRL WHO WAS TAKEN FROM HER HOME IN SYDNEY IN MARCH 1843 AND WAS FOUND LIVING WITH HEADHUNTERS IN THE TORRES STRAIT ALMOST SEVEN YEARS LATER, IN OCTOBER 1849 BY THE SHIP HMS "RATTLESNAKE" CAPTAIN OWEN STANLEY.
THIS BOOK IS THE RESULT OF 25 YEARS RESEARCH INTO THE LIFE OF BARBARA
THOMPSON AND THE FINAL RESULTS ARE AMAZING. THE TRUE [AND CERTIFIED]
TALE OF THIS YOUNG SCOTTISH LASSIE'S TRAUMATIC ADVENTURES WILL KEEP YOU
ENTHRALLED.
THE SYDLINGE BRANCH OF THE WARREN FAMILY
Families Warren and Sydlinge in Marnhull, Dorset.
From all appearances, the name Sydlinge/Sydlin came into Marhull, Dorset in or about the 15th century. The name Warren appeared at about the same time. It could be that the Warren family owned land in and around Marnhull as it is noticeable that the Sydlinge name soon becomes entwined with the Warren name ie; Robert Sydlinge alias Warren and then Robert Warren alias Sydlinge. Could this be an illegitimate factor being put forth or is it one of the many other ways that Aliases [ see Aliases post this blog] were used?
It is likely that the alias in these cases were being used to denote which family or previous residence the bearer came from. It did not appear to matter if the bearer took the name from the maternal or paternal side but this is left up to the reader to decide.
Although Robert Warren [b1562] may have been the first Warren shown in Parish
records at Marnhull, Dorset, it is NOT known if he was a Sylinge-Warren or Warren-Sydlinge or Warren without any addition. Alias's were in common use during the 14th and 15th century and there appears to be more than one theory on why [see post on Alias's this Blog] they were used at all. It is common today for those who wish to disguise themselves, to use a false name but in that era alias's had slightly different usages.That there were Warren and Sydlinge family members living in Marnhull before 1562, is obvious as the registers show deaths that took place in 1561 and there are other records that point to at least the middle 1400's for both families.
It is known from records that a Robert Sydlinge alias Warren [who may have sired Joan Sydlinge in 1563] was living in Marnhull prior to the 1562 birth of Robert Warren and that Robert Sydlinge [who was known only as Sydlinge] may have also been his [Robert Warren's] father although the 1562 birth name is shown only as Robert Warren but it became a common thing that the parent named Sydlinge alias Warren or vice versa, named their child/children [though not in all cases] with the singular surname rather than use the alias.
Recent investigations into this puzzle, appear to justify the thought that Robert Warren was just that, a Warren the same as Thomas Warren, Christopher Warren and John Warren who were also in Marnhull at about the same time period [middle 1500's] and in fact this was a single family who were probably of the same Devon and Cornwall family branch from which John Warren b 1617 [my forebear] originated. It should be noted that the Sydlinge/Warren family used Christian names that followed the royals, William, George, Elizabeth, Robert and Ann were commonly used by them and occasionally a Christopher or John or Thomas were thrown in. The Sydlinge/Warren family were predominantly agricultural workers whilst the Warren family of my line were masons and worked within the clergy. The first Warren of my line to arrive in Marnhull [John born 1617] was educated and took on the job of Parish Clerk whilst also working as a mason, his son and heir [John Warren married Ruth] followed in the same mode of employment.
This family Warren were more attuned to biblical names with Christopher, John, Thomas and Richard and the occasional Nathaniel also being used. The two families were obviously related but research has shown that they differed greatly in their beliefs. From the Sydlinge/Warren family, we have uneducated farm workers and quite a few girls who were left as single mums and there is no sign that any of this line could read or write. The Warren family that proceeded as Parish Clerks in Marnhull, continued on in that capacity until 1796 when Robert Warren [brother of Christopher Warren b 1698] died.
His nephew Christopher had left Marnhull some 8 years earlier to take up work in Southampton as a mason and Minister. It is noticeable that the name Warren had been used by John Sydlinge alyas Warren and also by a Robert Sydlinge alyas Warren and by Thomas Sydlinge alyas Warren during the middle 1500's and it is suspected that the three were brothers along with perhaps Christopher Sydlinge, who is shown only as Sydlinge when he died in 1571. It must be remembered that there were members of the Sydlinge/Sydlin family in Marnhull from the late 15th century and that members of the Warren family moved into Marnhull at about the same time or perhaps a little later. It seems probable that this Sidlin/Sydlinge family were a branch of the Warren family who were either holding on to their origins or a family name that was dying out. It may also be, that as in later years, that a Warren married a Sydlinge girl or vice-versa and used her maiden name as a remembrance to her line.
It is also possible that some members of the two families merged creating the Warren/Sidlinge and Sydlinge/Warren names but it is more probable that the Sydlinge name refers to the original residence of this family. It can be shown that at times people married and when they died, their original name was placed on their tombstone or death record as an alias ie; Mary Warren alias Duff, Mary married a Warren and when she died, she had her maiden name placed as an alias. So it appears that there were several ways for an alias to be used in that period and it also appears that the alias was used to define one family from another. First names like Mary, Robert, Richard, John, Elizabeth and Ann were prolific and there could be several Mary Warrens living and dying around the same time and so an 'alias' would have been handy as identification.
This name adoption did not last much more than a century in Marnhull, those who carried the Sydlinge alyas Warren name caused their children to be baptized as Sydlinge and not Warren alias Sydlinge or vice versa and it can be seen in Parish records that both families suffered from illness and early death to such an extent that eventually the Sydlinge name disappears whilst the Warren family had an influx of Warrens in the middle 1600's. The falling off of the use of the Sydlinge name was perhaps calculated by some members of this family but others simply died out and I have attempted to show what happened to each family below. Others perhaps dropped the Sydlinge name and elected to remain Warrens. Whatever the causes, I have tried to list all reasons and allow the reader to assume what they think the most viable. In my own belief, I feel that Sydlinge was a residential name from which the early Warren families came and that they maintained the alias so as to show the family difference between themselves and the Ashburton [Devon] and the [Cornish] Warren families who were also congregating in Marnhull. It is also noticeable that most of the Sydlinge alias Warren family were small farm holders who could not read nor write while the Warrens from Devon and Cornwall were churchmen and stone masons who were relatively well educated.
The use of farmers names by share croppers.
One theory put forward regarding the "alyas/alias" use is that when a peasant farmer rented a parcel of land from a farm owner or landholder, the peasant farmer often used the landholders name to signify where the peasant farmer was operating. for instance, Robert Sydlinge alias Pears who died in 1596 left a will, the will named his brother's son Thomas Sydlinge alias Warren the younger whose father was Thomas Sydlinge alias Warren the elder. This perhaps shows us that Thomas the elder hired land from a Warren and that his son took on the name so that he could continue holding the farm.
Robert Sydlinge alias Pears also had another brother John Wadnam and he was also named in the will as was his mother Margaret Wadnam. Robert's father Henry Sydlinge alias Pears [deceased] tells us that Robert Sidlinge alias Pears took over the farm owned by Henry after he died and that Margaret [his mother] perhaps remarried to a Wadnam. It is unsure at this time if the Sydlinge/Sidlin name adopted the alias due to the share farm theory or if they were originally of the Warren clan from the parish of Sydlinge/Sidlin or if they adopted it using the marriage theory where they maintained a dying name by using it as a second name. The name being used the other way around ie; John Warren alias Sydlinge is not easy to explain but as the era was formative for surnames, we shall have to wait and see what next is found by research. It should be noted that my own line had instances of taking the maiden name of a spouse and using it as a second name for some of their children ie; Nathaniel Short Warren was named for his grandmother Anna Maria Short Warren as was his sister Elizabeth Short Warren. This also applied to other siblings belonging to Martin Warren and his wife Anna Maria Short Warren.
THE FIRST OF MY LINE TO RESIDE IN MARNHULL
JOHN WARREN Born 1617 somewhere in the vicinity of Ashburton, Devon or Dorset or Cornwall with a father and/or brothers named Christopher, John, Robert, Richard, William and Thomas.
It is believed that this Warren family line of which I am a member migrated into the Dorset village of Marnhull about 1642/50 from somewhere [Ashburton?] in Devon. It appears that there were already a few Warren family members living in Marnhull prior to 1600 and they may have been the reason for the migration to that village and it can be seen that Christopher Warren b1623 was living in that village when John Born 1617 arrived, could they have been the sons of Christopher Warren and Alice Webb? Both have the correct birth years and Ilsington is not far from the village of Marnhull.
I have traced my line with confidence back to John Warren born 1617 and it is almost beyond question that his father was Christopher Warren married Alice Webb in 1613.
We know from records that John was born in 1617 because of Reverend John Hutchin's history of Dorset and because of his properly recorded death on 23rd January 1698/9 [calendar change] aged 81 years. We also know that when John Hutchins wrote his History, two Reverends and a Parish Clerk were on hand to offer up information on the Marnhull Warrens. The Reverends were Rectors Harry and Conyers Place, they were father and son and like the Warren family, were firmly settled in that village and as the Warrens handed down the Parish Clerk post, so did the Rectorship get handed down in the Place family. The Reverends suggested to Hutchins that the Parish Clerk Warrens had been incumbent father to son for three generations over almost 120 years and that after the first John had died in 1698, his son John [married Ruth] took over and remained as Clerk until his death in 1752 at age 94 years.
The Parish Clerk in charge at the time of Hutchin's visit was Christopher Warren [b 1698/9 died 1786/7 son of John married Ruth] and if anyone would have known where his father and grandfather originated, it would have been him. This is why I have chosen [with tongue in cheek] to accept that John [b 1617] came from Ilsington at some time after the death of his father [Christopher married Alice Webb] in 1626 and after he [John] married Alice Burgess.
John was nine when his father died and would have been sent off to school and college for the next twelve or so years. It is said that he married Alice Burgess in 1638 at Exeter, Devon at age 21 years and by that time was perhaps working as a clerk in Devon or Dorset.
It is also possible that the migration of a John Warren [married Margaret] into Marnhull in time to have a first born child named John in 1646 and a child named Alice a little later has some connection but until I am able to disprove [or prove] that John Warren b1617 was of the Warren/Webb line, I must content myself with only the belief that he was the son of Christopher Warren b 1585. From all sources so far examined, it certainly looks as if John b1617 was of the Ashburton Warren family but his early working background is not shown by historians, even the Reverend Thomas Warren [History of the Warren Family] simply quotes his marriage to Alice Burgess in 1638 and that is all.
There is one rather odd situation that has reared up in all this, A William Warren was born in Marnhull in 1617 and, he had a son William born 1658 and I will endeavour to research this in case there was a Christian name change. This William was a Church Warden and his family had some standing in the Marnhull community.[Disproved]
Finally, when one takes a good look at the Christian names used in this line, it is plain to see that there is definitely and most certainly a family relationship . Christopher, John, Thomas, Robert, William and Richard are used consistently in each generation and almost every one of these names are used in each generation backward in time to the Norman conquest. On the female side, the names Ann, Mary and Elizabeth dominate.
My Line goes back from Nathaniel like so; Nathaniel Short Warren b1805, Christopher b1767, Martin b1733, Christopher b1698, John b1658, John b1617, Christopher b1585, William b c1550, Christopher b c1505, John b c1482 and so forth.
John Warren b1617, died in Marnhull on the 23rd of January 1699 after holding the post of Parish Clerk for several years. He was the first of my line to become Parish Clerk in Marnhull and was probably also associated with stone masonry although this family association with that trade is not proven until his Grandson Christopher [b1698] is definitely shown [The Marn'll Book] to be in that trade. It is believed [by myself] that John Warren b1617, moved due to problems with the Church or with Cromwell in 1641 when he was 24 years old. I also believe that it was at least another 5 years [1646] before he moved his family to Marnhull, Dorset, from Devon.
It is Christopher's grandfather John Warren b1617, whom I believe was mentioned in the Marn'll Book as being rewarded for his loyalty to King Charles I of England. [Charles was also often used as a Christian name in my family].
John may have married Alice Burgess in 1638 and remained with her until about 1645 but it is not yet known if she died and he remarried before coming to Marnhull. If it was indeed he who migrated and if he did marry Alice Burgess, she may have died between 1638 and 1645 as no death for an Alice Warren is recorded in Marnhull from 1640 through 1740. It is of course possible that John came to Marnhull at a later date [after the loss of his wife Alice Burgess] and that he brought only his son John with him. As there is a Christopher Warren [married Elizabeth about 1658, it is possible that he brought more than one son to Marnhull.
John was succeeded by his son; John Warren Jr, born 1658 perhaps at Exeter in Devon [see Reverend Thomas Warren's "History of the Warren Family"] and he married Ruth c1693, he also, was a Parish Clerk and stone mason and had sons John b1695, Robert b1696 and Christopher b1698. Also daughters, Ruth b1701 and Mary b1702/3.
For some reason, it was Christopher who followed his father as Parish Clerk and this implies that both John and Robert were not wanting that position or they traveled elsewhere. It could be that John Jr married and had Children in Marnhull and probably involved himself in masonry whilst Robert disappears from view.
Christopher Warren b1698 died 1786/7 at Marnhull.
When his father John died. Christopher Warren was, like his father, a stone mason and took over as Parish Clerk when John died in 1752. Christopher had several children including Robert and later Martin b1733 [see below for all children in this family]. Robert [Christopher's son] took over as Parish Clerk in 1785 when Christopher died on 29th May of that year.
Robert Warren born c1727 appears to have remained single as there is no marriage record and no baptisms of children by him. Unless he married and lived "out of county" for a while and an Edward came of that marriage, one that allowed my line to continue as Parish Clerks. Otherwise, my Parish Clerk line ends about 1796 for an Edward became Clerk after the death of Robert Warren in 1796 but this is still being researched at this time.
So it appears at the moment, that my line has claim to four generations of Parish Clerks at Marnhull. Robert was succeeded by [a cousin?] Edward Warren who was probably the son of James Warren b 1716, who was the son of George Warren who dates back to George Warren b 1659.
If there is a relationship between the two families, it probably goes back to the first influx of Warrens into Marnhull in the 16th century or even 15th century. George Warren b1659 was born of a Christopher Warren who was perhaps [not proven] a member of the Sidlinge alias Warren family but it is more likely that Christopher was a Warren of the Devon/Cornish branch of the family. In fact his name is written Christopher Warringe [a common spelling of the name at that time] in official records.
On reading the "History of the Warren Family" by the Reverend Thomas Warren, he states that Christopher b 1698 had a son Robert who succeeded him in office, in this case, this was erroneous as Robert was the brother of Christopher.
The Reverend goes on to say that Robert had two sons, one who married a miss Short [Martin Warren] and George Warren [b1710] whom he said, married Susannah Hacket. This was also erroneous as Robert appears to have had no children. Christopher Warren [brother to Robert] had Martin Warren and the George Warren mentioned was born of George Warren.
In fact George did not marry Susannah Hacket but instead married a Susannah Pine and he was not the son of Robert Warren, he was the grandson of George Warren b 1659 who was the son of Christopher Warringe b c1623. George Warren [b1687] was both the father of George married Miss Pine and also was the father of James [b1716] who was the father of Edward [b1757] who took over from Robert Warren as Parish Clerk about 1796.
THE DISAGREEMENT BETWEEN
MODERN DAY WARRENS OVER THE
WARREN/SYDLINGE ORIGINS.
A disagreement between members of two Warren families who have had their beginnings in Marnhull has come about with the birth of George Warren in 1659 and John Warren in 1664 to the below Christopher Warren/Warringe and his wife Elizabeth. An English family who belong to this line have decided that John Warren born 1664 is the same John who married Ruth. This is the Parish Clerk of my line who died in 1752 age 94 years.
This of course goes against the details written by the Reverend Thomas Warren in his "History of the Warren Family" 1898-1902 and now also against the discovered death record of John Warren b 1617 who was the father of John married Ruth as stated by Hutchins and the Reverend Thomas Warren along with Harry and Conyers Place [ministers] at Marnhull.
Although I believe that this line of Christopher b c1623 is related to my own, it can be seen by studying the Parish Records, that he and John b1617 are either first cousins or true brothers. If they were not, there may have been a family connection further back but Christopher and John both appear to have arrived in Marnhull at any time up until 1658 while the civil disturbances were happening in England.
The British family appear to have a wish that Christopher Warringe was of the Sydlinge Warren line based on the belief that this dates them back to the 13th century Fulk Fitzwarin who apparently sired a few children to farm maidens around Shropshire. This of course would give them a comfortable ride directly into the Norman period and a claim Royale.
A problem arises with this supposition in that from the earliest records of the Sydlinge line c1500, it is a period of three hundred years back to Fulk Fitzwarin and I cannot see where records for this could be found among the Sydlinge line who were mostly uneducated farm laborers.
My Warren line has been proven back to John Warren b 1617 and this includes John Warren married Ruth and there the debate ends regarding our two families being born of Christopher married Elizabeth c1658. Some DNA testing has been done in this area and a relationship has been established but this has been defined as not being sufficiently close to show a strong relationship.
Christopher Warringe c1623-1695 married Elizabeth c1658.
I do not see this branch of the Warren family being in any way joined to the Sydlinge line as we have a definite death for Christopher in 1695 as Warren and the birth of George and John also without the attachment of the Sydlinge name and although there was a Christopher Sydlinge who died in 1571, there is nothing to suggest that Christopher Warringe was born in Marnhull or that he had any connection to the Sydlin/Sydlinge families.
If he was not of the Sydlinge line, then Christopher [to all appearances] may have come into Marnhull as a cousin or even as the brother [Christopher b1623] to John Warren b 1617.
Marnhull in Dorset is not too far from Ashburton and/or Ilsington and as their father died when the boys were young and was only Vicar at Ilsington, it seems to point to the fact that the family remained in Devon/Dorset and the thought that three or even four brothers may have migrated from Devon to the Marnhull area during the unsettled times has very good possibilities.
Christopher [married Alice Webb] died early [13 years married] and it is somehow hard to believe that he had the finances to leave behind him finances that would feed and educate all seven of his children for the next 15 or so years.
His sons would have been cared for by their mother and/or relatives. The oldest boy Robert, was only 11 years old [daughter Ann was 13 years old] when his father died, John was nine, Richard was seven,Thomas was five,Christopher was three and William had only just been born.
Proving that this family is a direct line of my own with other than what has already been written, is at this time beyond the Author. There are many problems associated with family history and it can be shown that Reverend Thomas Warren was incorrect with the records of William Warren [b 1626 as son of Christopher married Alice Webb in 1613] who was thought to be Sir William Warren of London [this has been proven wrong] and it is likely that although the family married into the other families listed on their family crest, that they did not reach the heights shown in Reverend Thomas Warren's History.
It appears that some Warren family members entered Marnhull as far back as the late 1400's and others followed during the next 100 years. Robert Warren, Thomas Warren, Christopher Warren and John Warren were Warren names that appeared well before and during the next 60 years after 1600, there were at least one or two other Warren families that arrived in the village during that period.
The Reverend Thomas Warren suggests that the Warren family were incoming from Ashburton and from the number of times the above christian names were used in Marnhull, it is hard to doubt that theory because the same Christian names were used prolifically in Ashburton, Devon from the 1500's and continued on in my own line, up until the middle 1800's with the death of the last Christopher Warren of my line.
My thoughts on the above matter are simply this, Christopher Warren [married Alice Webb 1613] had his children between 1614 [Ann] and 1626 [William although his birth has not been verified], just how much he left in his will to his wife and family is unknown to me but Alice had family and there is a suggestion that their son Thomas was living in Ermington, Devon with relatives about 1636. Where the family wealth came from is not known but one can only wait and see as the research continues.
I think it possible that at least three, possibly four of the brothers [John, Thomas, Christopher and possibly William] could have migrated to Marnhull at the time of Cromwell. This would explain why these names continued strong in the family and why they were so strongly bound to the church. It is hard to understand how this family could become elite prominent citizens as shown by the Reverend Thomas Warren, when their father died in 1626 while the children were all still young. England was experiencing financial difficulties with the troubles being experienced by King Charles I and the rebellion of 1641/2 and this continued on for several years.
My family history at this time is arrived at because from about 1475, The men in my line are described as Churchwardens until Christopher Warren became a Vicar at Ilsington in Devon in 1626. His father William may have also been a Vicar himself but this is also not known at present.
Both Ashburton and Ilsington were small villages at that time and it is very hard to find this family wallowing in wealth while still holding minor positions within the Church. This problem is intensified when we look at the visitation of the heralds to Ilsington about 1623, they awarded the family crest and arms a few years later [about 1634] and as the children married, quarterings were added to the crest and arms and as I now believe that I am of this line, Burgess is the maternal line quartering from which I have descended.
Wealth may have come through marriage but as at least two of this family have been erroneously registered in the history written by the Reverend Thomas Warren, it is probable that the family have been mixed up with a London family who were wealthy merchants. There was a John and Alice Warren living in Cripplegate, London at the correct time and they named their children just as their forefathers and mine did. They were there until about 1656 when their last son [Joshua/Joseph] was born.
MARNHULL PROTESTATION RETURNS
1641ad
Both a Thomas and a Christopher Warren signed the protestation in Marnhull as did a John and William Warren. At that time, the Warren boys belonging to Christopher [married Alice Webb] would have been aged; Robert 26 years, John 24 years, Thomas 22 years, Christopher 18 years whilst William could not have signed because he had not yet reached age 18 years. If Christopher b 1623 went to Marnhull, he would have been about 36 years old when he married Elizabeth and sired George in 1659 and John in 1664, this though is guesswork.
It can be seen that the Warren family were strongly incumbent in Cornwall, Devon, Dorset, Somerset, Hampshire and Wiltshire from the earliest times after the Norman conquest.
My line appear to have been strongly connected to the Church and from about 1650 to 1800 were also involved in stone masonry and this work suggests the stone quarry areas of Southern England.
It is also noticeable that Christopher Warren who married Alice Webb and his heir Robert wanted to run very ancient churches, Christopher at Ilsington, Devon and Robert at Rame in Cornwall. Both churches were built dating back to the early 1200's.
For the American families who would usurp this line, please remember that Christopher Warren was born in 1585 and married Alice Webb in 1613 and did not become Vicar at Ilsington until 1621. His heir [Robert] was born in 1615 and his second son John was born in 1617.None of this family migrated to America.
BACK TO THE SYDLINGE NAME The Sydlinge family existed in Marnhull from at least the turn of the 16th century [1499-1500] and the first recorded use of Warren alias Sydlinge or vice-versa is seen in 1563 with the birth of Joane Sydlinge alias Warren.
This family appears to have been predominantly farm workers, although at least one Sydlinge [alias Pears] died with money to mete out in his will and was obviously a share farmer who was the son of a share farmer. A minor point comes into play here when one looks at this Robert Sydlinge alyas Pears, His will specifically states that his father was also a Sydlinge alias Pears and that his brother was a Sydlinge alias Warren [Thomas the elder] whilst his mother was Margaret Wadnam.
If the alias situation implied that they were fathered by a Warren or by a Pears, then Robert's mother surely had some explaining to do as she would have had sons by Warren, Pears and Wadnam all while her husband was alive?
Christopher Sydlinge who lived in Marnhull prior to 1571 [he died that year] may have been a Sydlinge alias Warren but it is not known for sure at this time. There were those who claimed only Sydlinge and those who claimed only Warren. There was also a Robert Sydlinge alias Warren at that time and it is unsure if Robert Warren and Robert Sydlinge alias Warren were one and the same but it is more likely that they were not.
It is possible that Robert Sydlinge [b c1518-20] also sired John Sydlinge alias Warren b c1539, Thomas Sydlinge alias Warren b c 1540 and William Sydlinge alias Warren b c 1542, seen below having their children. The Sydlinge line probably came into Marnhull somewhere in the late 1400's perhaps from Sidling/Sidlin, a parish in lower Dorset. They may have been an early branch connected to the Warren family who were driven out of their county by one thing or another.
Whatever the problem, they settled in Marnhull and by 1538 or not long thereafter, had begun to use the name Sydlinge alyas Warren although it appears that for the most part, they named their children Sydlinge without the alias, as the Clerk wrote them in as ie; John Warren son of John Warren Alias Sydlinge.
The Christian names in the Marnhull Warren family run just as they did in the Headborough/Ashburton Warren family and they were continued within my own line of John Warren born 1617 and so on. What is undoubted [by the Author] is that John Warren b 1617 did migrate into Marnhull about the time of the religious and civil war troubles of 1641.
Other Marnhull Warren families do not share the same desire to stick to the tradition of the Ashburton Warrens. An example of this is shown in my line, John [b 1617] was of Christopher [b1585] who was of William [b c1542], who was of Christopher a Churchwarden [b c1505-20] , who was of John Warren [b c1475] who was probably also a Churchwarden of Ashburton .
My line continues forward with John [b1617] followed by John b 1658, followed by Christopher b 1698, followed by Martin [3rd son] followed by Christopher, followed by Nathaniel and so, into modern times where names were not so religiously followed.
It should be noted that the family followed the traditions until the early 1800's and the names John, Robert, Richard, Thomas and Christopher, were dominant whilst other names were introduced via the father of the bride.
The names Robert, John,Thomas,Richard and Christopher prevail in my family line up until about 1800. William is used and so too is James and Charles with Nathaniel in there also.
The other known Warren families predominantly used George and William with James, Philip, Peter, Richard, Robert and the occasional Christopher [perhaps two in two hundred years] also.
As time went by, the Sydlinge family of farmers also used, on occasions, the surnames the other way round ie; Warren alias Sydlinge and later still perhaps adopted Warren on its own but this we shall see when we combine all birth, marriage and death records.
It appears that there were Sydlinge landholders and therefore it is likely that Warren members who were only small farmers, also took up share holdings with a Sydlinge and that may have been why the names were also found in reverse. Just how many Sydlinge members adopted the Warren name alone remains to be seen.
There also appears to be other family Warrens incoming after the troubles of 1640/2 and it certainly may have been the turmoil in England and the church that caused the migrations because it should be noted that many sections of the Warren family have, since the Norman period, been heavily involved in the church.
THE WARREN FAMILIES O F
MARNHULL
1840-1660
The Warren families of Marnhull.
The below families are shown [and color coded] as three separate families. The colour codes are; Blue for my own line, Red for the farmer line and Black for the third line. The family beginning with Christopher Warren married Elizabeth [Red code] about 1658 were probably related to my line below beginning [Blue code] with John b 1617 died 1698 who was probably of the Christopher and Alice Webb line of Ashburton and Ilsington
The third family belonging to Martin Warren married Elizabeth [Foyle?Black code] with perhaps the family George married Margery being connected in some way to the line Martin married Elizabeth.
I have no doubt that all three Warren families were related and that Marnhull became a center for migration from about 1450 to 1650.
MARNHULL WARREN FAMILIES
Joseph Warren b 1811 married Elizabeth Curtis 2nd April 1838 Children were; George b 1839 and Levi b 1843. Son of Martin Warren married Elizabeth.
THOMAS WARREN b c1821 m Lavinia? 1842.
Children were; Charlotte Zebra b 4th June 1843, This is the only child and there are no further records, may have moved out of county or only came to Marnhull to marry.
EDWARD WARREN b 1807 m Charlotte Snook 14th May 1836
Children were;Edward b 1836, Simeon b 1837 and Reuben b 1839.Christmas Edward b 1848?.
Son of Edward Warren
This appears to be all the children this couple had and GF Edward was born of Martin and Elizabeth Warren in 1817.
WILLIAM WARREN b 1811, died 1878 m Mary Lambert 1833. Children were;William Henry b 1834 died 1861, Anne b 1836, Emmanuel b 1843. Son of Jacob Warren.
JOHN WARREN b 1806 died 1874 m Harriet True b 1802 died 1863, married 12th April 1830. Children were; George b 1835, Sarah b 1832, John b 1834 died 1864, Ann b 1835, James b 1837 died 1861, Henry b 1839. Son of Martin married Elizabeth. The birth of James [1837] is registered to John and Hannah Warren but Harriet's name may have been misread by OPC.
ROBERT WARREN m Jane Moore b 1806 died 1862, married 15th August 1829. Children were; William Henry b 1832, died 1861. Julia b 1841, Robert b 1843. Son of Jacob Warren.
JAMES WARREN b 1808 m Christina Kendle 20th April 1829.
Children were; James b 1830 died, James b 1832, Giles b 1835, Robert b 1831, John b 1844, Thomas b 3-4-1847. son of Martin married Elizabeth.
JAMES WARREN [b 1783, died 1861 aged 79 years] m Ann Strickland b 1806 died 1859, They married 4th July 1826. Children were;James b 1832, John b 1834, Lucy b 1837, Elizabeth b 1841, Elijah Walter b 1843 died 1843.
son of Edward married Mary Jarvis.
LEVI WARREN b1797, died 1865 m Maria Curtis b 1799 died 1838 m 17th April 1823. Children were; Ann b 1825, James b 23rd November 1833,
CHARLES WARREN b1796, died 1866 m Sarah Hann @ West Stour 16th June 1819. Children were; Robert b 9th April 1820, Hannah b 12th May 1822. Son of Jacob Warren.
WILLIAM WARREN [farmer] b 1797 died 1822 m 1818 Sarah Galpin b 1797 William died January 30th 1822.
Children were; William b 1819, John b 1821,
Son of Thomas and Sarah
Son of Jacob Warren.
Son of Thomas married Sarah Howe
JOHN WARREN b1768, died 1848. m Ann Stone [Stokes] 22nd March 1800.
Son of John Warren married Sarah Chin.
MARTIN WARREN b c1762 died 1849 m Elizabeth Bisse? [Foyle?] b 1767, married c 1799/1800. Children were; John b 1801, died 1802. Ann b 1803, John b 1806, James b 1808, Joseph b 1811,William born 1814, died 1817, Edward b 1817.This Martin was a possible son of George Warren of Cornwall and was born out of Marnhull Parish.
MARTIN WARREN b 1778 m Mary Burge 21st April 1798.
Children were; Sarah b 30th July 1797, John b 1799 perhaps died 1802, Anna Maria b 1802, Christopher b 1804, Jemima b 1807. This Martin was the son of Martin Warren married Anna Maria Short.
JOSEPH WARREN b 1767, died 1839 m Martha Woodrow [b1761, died 1833] 24th July 1797. Children were; John b 1798 died c 1801, John b 1801 died 1874, Sarah b April 1804.
Son of George Warren
STEPHEN WARREN b 1769, died 1849. m Hester Longman 21st March 1796, Children were; Maria b 1798, John b 1804, Robert b 1806, died 1843. James b 1809, Eliza b 1812. Son of John and Grace Warren
THOMAS WARREN [farmer] b 1773 m Sarah 1794?
Children were; Samuel b 1794, William b 1797, Stephen b March 1799. Son of Thomas Warren and Sarah Howe
WILLIAM WARREN b 1768 m Elizabeth Curtis 26th January 1793. Children were; William b 1793 died 1822. Son of William married Grace Chant
The Australian line of Warren at this point leave Marnhull to set up in Southampton before the son of Nathaniel [Alfred Frederick Warren departed for New Zealand in 1860. Christopher is a stone mason and set his trade in Southampton near St Marys.
CHRISTOPHER WARREN B 1768 m Anna Maria Simm @ Southampton of Lymington Hampshire in 1788. Children all born at Southampton, Hants, were; Uriah b 1790, William b 1792, Elizabeth b 1794 died shortly after, Elizabeth Summer b 1795, Harriet b 1798, John Elisha b 1800, Carolina Isabel b 1802, Nathaniel Short b 1805.
Christopher was the Son of Martin Warren married Anna Maria Short at Marnhull, Dorset.
JACOB WARREN b 1755, died 1835 m Mary Hann 24th September 1791. Children were; Stephen b 1794 died 1857, Charles b 1797, Betty b 1803, William b 1810.
Jacob may have come in as a migrant.
EDWARD WARREN b1757, died 1840 m Ann White 7th May 1787, Children were; Simon b 1788, Reuben b 1790, Dinah b 1793, Simeon b 1796, Levi b 1798, Ann b 1802, Mary b 1804, Edward b 1807.
Son of James Warren.
WILLIAM WARREN b 1744 m Sarah Kendall 27th June 1779 Children were; Betty 1781, Ann b 1783, Robert 1786. Son of Thomas Warren.
JOHN WARREN b 1763 m Sarah Chin at Hinton St Mary, 12th April 1767. Children were;John b 1768,died 1848, Mary b 1770, Elizabeth Light b 1774.
JOHN WARREN b 1744 m Grace Gulliver. 11th August 1766 at Gillingham. Children were; Elizabeth b 1767, Stephen b 1769, Stephen b 1770, Grace b 1772. Son of William married Ann Hine
EDWARD WARREN m Mary Jarvis 20th August 1776.
Children were; Robert b 1777, Jane b 1781, James b 1783 died 1861, Leah b 1786.
THOMAS WARREN b 1741 m Sarah Howe 4th November 1763.Children were; Elizabeth b 1764, Sarah b 1765, James b 1770, Thomas b 1773, Mary and Esther b 1776, Mary b 1779, Son of Christopher Warren married Elizabeth Crow.
It is known from records that a Robert Sydlinge alias Warren [who may have sired Joan Sydlinge in 1563] was living in Marnhull prior to the 1562 birth of Robert Warren and that Robert Sydlinge [who was known only as Sydlinge] may have also been his [Robert Warren's] father although the 1562 birth name is shown only as Robert Warren but it became a common thing that the parent named Sydlinge alias Warren or vice versa, named their child/children [though not in all cases] with the singular surname rather than use the alias.
Recent investigations into this puzzle, appear to justify the thought that Robert Warren was just that, a Warren the same as Thomas Warren, Christopher Warren and John Warren who were also in Marnhull at about the same time period [middle 1500's] and in fact this was a single family who were probably of the same Devon and Cornwall family branch from which John Warren b 1617 [my forebear] originated. It should be noted that the Sydlinge/Warren family used Christian names that followed the royals, William, George, Elizabeth, Robert and Ann were commonly used by them and occasionally a Christopher or John or Thomas were thrown in. The Sydlinge/Warren family were predominantly agricultural workers whilst the Warren family of my line were masons and worked within the clergy. The first Warren of my line to arrive in Marnhull [John born 1617] was educated and took on the job of Parish Clerk whilst also working as a mason, his son and heir [John Warren married Ruth] followed in the same mode of employment.
This family Warren were more attuned to biblical names with Christopher, John, Thomas and Richard and the occasional Nathaniel also being used. The two families were obviously related but research has shown that they differed greatly in their beliefs. From the Sydlinge/Warren family, we have uneducated farm workers and quite a few girls who were left as single mums and there is no sign that any of this line could read or write. The Warren family that proceeded as Parish Clerks in Marnhull, continued on in that capacity until 1796 when Robert Warren [brother of Christopher Warren b 1698] died.
His nephew Christopher had left Marnhull some 8 years earlier to take up work in Southampton as a mason and Minister. It is noticeable that the name Warren had been used by John Sydlinge alyas Warren and also by a Robert Sydlinge alyas Warren and by Thomas Sydlinge alyas Warren during the middle 1500's and it is suspected that the three were brothers along with perhaps Christopher Sydlinge, who is shown only as Sydlinge when he died in 1571. It must be remembered that there were members of the Sydlinge/Sydlin family in Marnhull from the late 15th century and that members of the Warren family moved into Marnhull at about the same time or perhaps a little later. It seems probable that this Sidlin/Sydlinge family were a branch of the Warren family who were either holding on to their origins or a family name that was dying out. It may also be, that as in later years, that a Warren married a Sydlinge girl or vice-versa and used her maiden name as a remembrance to her line.
It is also possible that some members of the two families merged creating the Warren/Sidlinge and Sydlinge/Warren names but it is more probable that the Sydlinge name refers to the original residence of this family. It can be shown that at times people married and when they died, their original name was placed on their tombstone or death record as an alias ie; Mary Warren alias Duff, Mary married a Warren and when she died, she had her maiden name placed as an alias. So it appears that there were several ways for an alias to be used in that period and it also appears that the alias was used to define one family from another. First names like Mary, Robert, Richard, John, Elizabeth and Ann were prolific and there could be several Mary Warrens living and dying around the same time and so an 'alias' would have been handy as identification.
This name adoption did not last much more than a century in Marnhull, those who carried the Sydlinge alyas Warren name caused their children to be baptized as Sydlinge and not Warren alias Sydlinge or vice versa and it can be seen in Parish records that both families suffered from illness and early death to such an extent that eventually the Sydlinge name disappears whilst the Warren family had an influx of Warrens in the middle 1600's. The falling off of the use of the Sydlinge name was perhaps calculated by some members of this family but others simply died out and I have attempted to show what happened to each family below. Others perhaps dropped the Sydlinge name and elected to remain Warrens. Whatever the causes, I have tried to list all reasons and allow the reader to assume what they think the most viable. In my own belief, I feel that Sydlinge was a residential name from which the early Warren families came and that they maintained the alias so as to show the family difference between themselves and the Ashburton [Devon] and the [Cornish] Warren families who were also congregating in Marnhull. It is also noticeable that most of the Sydlinge alias Warren family were small farm holders who could not read nor write while the Warrens from Devon and Cornwall were churchmen and stone masons who were relatively well educated.
The use of farmers names by share croppers.
One theory put forward regarding the "alyas/alias" use is that when a peasant farmer rented a parcel of land from a farm owner or landholder, the peasant farmer often used the landholders name to signify where the peasant farmer was operating. for instance, Robert Sydlinge alias Pears who died in 1596 left a will, the will named his brother's son Thomas Sydlinge alias Warren the younger whose father was Thomas Sydlinge alias Warren the elder. This perhaps shows us that Thomas the elder hired land from a Warren and that his son took on the name so that he could continue holding the farm.
Robert Sydlinge alias Pears also had another brother John Wadnam and he was also named in the will as was his mother Margaret Wadnam. Robert's father Henry Sydlinge alias Pears [deceased] tells us that Robert Sidlinge alias Pears took over the farm owned by Henry after he died and that Margaret [his mother] perhaps remarried to a Wadnam. It is unsure at this time if the Sydlinge/Sidlin name adopted the alias due to the share farm theory or if they were originally of the Warren clan from the parish of Sydlinge/Sidlin or if they adopted it using the marriage theory where they maintained a dying name by using it as a second name. The name being used the other way around ie; John Warren alias Sydlinge is not easy to explain but as the era was formative for surnames, we shall have to wait and see what next is found by research. It should be noted that my own line had instances of taking the maiden name of a spouse and using it as a second name for some of their children ie; Nathaniel Short Warren was named for his grandmother Anna Maria Short Warren as was his sister Elizabeth Short Warren. This also applied to other siblings belonging to Martin Warren and his wife Anna Maria Short Warren.
THE FIRST OF MY LINE TO RESIDE IN MARNHULL
JOHN WARREN Born 1617 somewhere in the vicinity of Ashburton, Devon or Dorset or Cornwall with a father and/or brothers named Christopher, John, Robert, Richard, William and Thomas.
It is believed that this Warren family line of which I am a member migrated into the Dorset village of Marnhull about 1642/50 from somewhere [Ashburton?] in Devon. It appears that there were already a few Warren family members living in Marnhull prior to 1600 and they may have been the reason for the migration to that village and it can be seen that Christopher Warren b1623 was living in that village when John Born 1617 arrived, could they have been the sons of Christopher Warren and Alice Webb? Both have the correct birth years and Ilsington is not far from the village of Marnhull.
I have traced my line with confidence back to John Warren born 1617 and it is almost beyond question that his father was Christopher Warren married Alice Webb in 1613.
We know from records that John was born in 1617 because of Reverend John Hutchin's history of Dorset and because of his properly recorded death on 23rd January 1698/9 [calendar change] aged 81 years. We also know that when John Hutchins wrote his History, two Reverends and a Parish Clerk were on hand to offer up information on the Marnhull Warrens. The Reverends were Rectors Harry and Conyers Place, they were father and son and like the Warren family, were firmly settled in that village and as the Warrens handed down the Parish Clerk post, so did the Rectorship get handed down in the Place family. The Reverends suggested to Hutchins that the Parish Clerk Warrens had been incumbent father to son for three generations over almost 120 years and that after the first John had died in 1698, his son John [married Ruth] took over and remained as Clerk until his death in 1752 at age 94 years.
The Parish Clerk in charge at the time of Hutchin's visit was Christopher Warren [b 1698/9 died 1786/7 son of John married Ruth] and if anyone would have known where his father and grandfather originated, it would have been him. This is why I have chosen [with tongue in cheek] to accept that John [b 1617] came from Ilsington at some time after the death of his father [Christopher married Alice Webb] in 1626 and after he [John] married Alice Burgess.
John was nine when his father died and would have been sent off to school and college for the next twelve or so years. It is said that he married Alice Burgess in 1638 at Exeter, Devon at age 21 years and by that time was perhaps working as a clerk in Devon or Dorset.
It is also possible that the migration of a John Warren [married Margaret] into Marnhull in time to have a first born child named John in 1646 and a child named Alice a little later has some connection but until I am able to disprove [or prove] that John Warren b1617 was of the Warren/Webb line, I must content myself with only the belief that he was the son of Christopher Warren b 1585. From all sources so far examined, it certainly looks as if John b1617 was of the Ashburton Warren family but his early working background is not shown by historians, even the Reverend Thomas Warren [History of the Warren Family] simply quotes his marriage to Alice Burgess in 1638 and that is all.
There is one rather odd situation that has reared up in all this, A William Warren was born in Marnhull in 1617 and, he had a son William born 1658 and I will endeavour to research this in case there was a Christian name change. This William was a Church Warden and his family had some standing in the Marnhull community.[Disproved]
Finally, when one takes a good look at the Christian names used in this line, it is plain to see that there is definitely and most certainly a family relationship . Christopher, John, Thomas, Robert, William and Richard are used consistently in each generation and almost every one of these names are used in each generation backward in time to the Norman conquest. On the female side, the names Ann, Mary and Elizabeth dominate.
My Line goes back from Nathaniel like so; Nathaniel Short Warren b1805, Christopher b1767, Martin b1733, Christopher b1698, John b1658, John b1617, Christopher b1585, William b c1550, Christopher b c1505, John b c1482 and so forth.
John Warren b1617, died in Marnhull on the 23rd of January 1699 after holding the post of Parish Clerk for several years. He was the first of my line to become Parish Clerk in Marnhull and was probably also associated with stone masonry although this family association with that trade is not proven until his Grandson Christopher [b1698] is definitely shown [The Marn'll Book] to be in that trade. It is believed [by myself] that John Warren b1617, moved due to problems with the Church or with Cromwell in 1641 when he was 24 years old. I also believe that it was at least another 5 years [1646] before he moved his family to Marnhull, Dorset, from Devon.
It is Christopher's grandfather John Warren b1617, whom I believe was mentioned in the Marn'll Book as being rewarded for his loyalty to King Charles I of England. [Charles was also often used as a Christian name in my family].
John may have married Alice Burgess in 1638 and remained with her until about 1645 but it is not yet known if she died and he remarried before coming to Marnhull. If it was indeed he who migrated and if he did marry Alice Burgess, she may have died between 1638 and 1645 as no death for an Alice Warren is recorded in Marnhull from 1640 through 1740. It is of course possible that John came to Marnhull at a later date [after the loss of his wife Alice Burgess] and that he brought only his son John with him. As there is a Christopher Warren [married Elizabeth about 1658, it is possible that he brought more than one son to Marnhull.
John was succeeded by his son; John Warren Jr, born 1658 perhaps at Exeter in Devon [see Reverend Thomas Warren's "History of the Warren Family"] and he married Ruth c1693, he also, was a Parish Clerk and stone mason and had sons John b1695, Robert b1696 and Christopher b1698. Also daughters, Ruth b1701 and Mary b1702/3.
For some reason, it was Christopher who followed his father as Parish Clerk and this implies that both John and Robert were not wanting that position or they traveled elsewhere. It could be that John Jr married and had Children in Marnhull and probably involved himself in masonry whilst Robert disappears from view.
Christopher Warren b1698 died 1786/7 at Marnhull.
When his father John died. Christopher Warren was, like his father, a stone mason and took over as Parish Clerk when John died in 1752. Christopher had several children including Robert and later Martin b1733 [see below for all children in this family]. Robert [Christopher's son] took over as Parish Clerk in 1785 when Christopher died on 29th May of that year.
Robert Warren born c1727 appears to have remained single as there is no marriage record and no baptisms of children by him. Unless he married and lived "out of county" for a while and an Edward came of that marriage, one that allowed my line to continue as Parish Clerks. Otherwise, my Parish Clerk line ends about 1796 for an Edward became Clerk after the death of Robert Warren in 1796 but this is still being researched at this time.
So it appears at the moment, that my line has claim to four generations of Parish Clerks at Marnhull. Robert was succeeded by [a cousin?] Edward Warren who was probably the son of James Warren b 1716, who was the son of George Warren who dates back to George Warren b 1659.
If there is a relationship between the two families, it probably goes back to the first influx of Warrens into Marnhull in the 16th century or even 15th century. George Warren b1659 was born of a Christopher Warren who was perhaps [not proven] a member of the Sidlinge alias Warren family but it is more likely that Christopher was a Warren of the Devon/Cornish branch of the family. In fact his name is written Christopher Warringe [a common spelling of the name at that time] in official records.
On reading the "History of the Warren Family" by the Reverend Thomas Warren, he states that Christopher b 1698 had a son Robert who succeeded him in office, in this case, this was erroneous as Robert was the brother of Christopher.
The Reverend goes on to say that Robert had two sons, one who married a miss Short [Martin Warren] and George Warren [b1710] whom he said, married Susannah Hacket. This was also erroneous as Robert appears to have had no children. Christopher Warren [brother to Robert] had Martin Warren and the George Warren mentioned was born of George Warren.
In fact George did not marry Susannah Hacket but instead married a Susannah Pine and he was not the son of Robert Warren, he was the grandson of George Warren b 1659 who was the son of Christopher Warringe b c1623. George Warren [b1687] was both the father of George married Miss Pine and also was the father of James [b1716] who was the father of Edward [b1757] who took over from Robert Warren as Parish Clerk about 1796.
THE DISAGREEMENT BETWEEN
MODERN DAY WARRENS OVER THE
WARREN/SYDLINGE ORIGINS.
A disagreement between members of two Warren families who have had their beginnings in Marnhull has come about with the birth of George Warren in 1659 and John Warren in 1664 to the below Christopher Warren/Warringe and his wife Elizabeth. An English family who belong to this line have decided that John Warren born 1664 is the same John who married Ruth. This is the Parish Clerk of my line who died in 1752 age 94 years.
This of course goes against the details written by the Reverend Thomas Warren in his "History of the Warren Family" 1898-1902 and now also against the discovered death record of John Warren b 1617 who was the father of John married Ruth as stated by Hutchins and the Reverend Thomas Warren along with Harry and Conyers Place [ministers] at Marnhull.
Although I believe that this line of Christopher b c1623 is related to my own, it can be seen by studying the Parish Records, that he and John b1617 are either first cousins or true brothers. If they were not, there may have been a family connection further back but Christopher and John both appear to have arrived in Marnhull at any time up until 1658 while the civil disturbances were happening in England.
The British family appear to have a wish that Christopher Warringe was of the Sydlinge Warren line based on the belief that this dates them back to the 13th century Fulk Fitzwarin who apparently sired a few children to farm maidens around Shropshire. This of course would give them a comfortable ride directly into the Norman period and a claim Royale.
A problem arises with this supposition in that from the earliest records of the Sydlinge line c1500, it is a period of three hundred years back to Fulk Fitzwarin and I cannot see where records for this could be found among the Sydlinge line who were mostly uneducated farm laborers.
My Warren line has been proven back to John Warren b 1617 and this includes John Warren married Ruth and there the debate ends regarding our two families being born of Christopher married Elizabeth c1658. Some DNA testing has been done in this area and a relationship has been established but this has been defined as not being sufficiently close to show a strong relationship.
Christopher Warringe c1623-1695 married Elizabeth c1658.
I do not see this branch of the Warren family being in any way joined to the Sydlinge line as we have a definite death for Christopher in 1695 as Warren and the birth of George and John also without the attachment of the Sydlinge name and although there was a Christopher Sydlinge who died in 1571, there is nothing to suggest that Christopher Warringe was born in Marnhull or that he had any connection to the Sydlin/Sydlinge families.
If he was not of the Sydlinge line, then Christopher [to all appearances] may have come into Marnhull as a cousin or even as the brother [Christopher b1623] to John Warren b 1617.
Marnhull in Dorset is not too far from Ashburton and/or Ilsington and as their father died when the boys were young and was only Vicar at Ilsington, it seems to point to the fact that the family remained in Devon/Dorset and the thought that three or even four brothers may have migrated from Devon to the Marnhull area during the unsettled times has very good possibilities.
Christopher [married Alice Webb] died early [13 years married] and it is somehow hard to believe that he had the finances to leave behind him finances that would feed and educate all seven of his children for the next 15 or so years.
His sons would have been cared for by their mother and/or relatives. The oldest boy Robert, was only 11 years old [daughter Ann was 13 years old] when his father died, John was nine, Richard was seven,Thomas was five,Christopher was three and William had only just been born.
Proving that this family is a direct line of my own with other than what has already been written, is at this time beyond the Author. There are many problems associated with family history and it can be shown that Reverend Thomas Warren was incorrect with the records of William Warren [b 1626 as son of Christopher married Alice Webb in 1613] who was thought to be Sir William Warren of London [this has been proven wrong] and it is likely that although the family married into the other families listed on their family crest, that they did not reach the heights shown in Reverend Thomas Warren's History.
It appears that some Warren family members entered Marnhull as far back as the late 1400's and others followed during the next 100 years. Robert Warren, Thomas Warren, Christopher Warren and John Warren were Warren names that appeared well before and during the next 60 years after 1600, there were at least one or two other Warren families that arrived in the village during that period.
The Reverend Thomas Warren suggests that the Warren family were incoming from Ashburton and from the number of times the above christian names were used in Marnhull, it is hard to doubt that theory because the same Christian names were used prolifically in Ashburton, Devon from the 1500's and continued on in my own line, up until the middle 1800's with the death of the last Christopher Warren of my line.
My thoughts on the above matter are simply this, Christopher Warren [married Alice Webb 1613] had his children between 1614 [Ann] and 1626 [William although his birth has not been verified], just how much he left in his will to his wife and family is unknown to me but Alice had family and there is a suggestion that their son Thomas was living in Ermington, Devon with relatives about 1636. Where the family wealth came from is not known but one can only wait and see as the research continues.
I think it possible that at least three, possibly four of the brothers [John, Thomas, Christopher and possibly William] could have migrated to Marnhull at the time of Cromwell. This would explain why these names continued strong in the family and why they were so strongly bound to the church. It is hard to understand how this family could become elite prominent citizens as shown by the Reverend Thomas Warren, when their father died in 1626 while the children were all still young. England was experiencing financial difficulties with the troubles being experienced by King Charles I and the rebellion of 1641/2 and this continued on for several years.
My family history at this time is arrived at because from about 1475, The men in my line are described as Churchwardens until Christopher Warren became a Vicar at Ilsington in Devon in 1626. His father William may have also been a Vicar himself but this is also not known at present.
Both Ashburton and Ilsington were small villages at that time and it is very hard to find this family wallowing in wealth while still holding minor positions within the Church. This problem is intensified when we look at the visitation of the heralds to Ilsington about 1623, they awarded the family crest and arms a few years later [about 1634] and as the children married, quarterings were added to the crest and arms and as I now believe that I am of this line, Burgess is the maternal line quartering from which I have descended.
Wealth may have come through marriage but as at least two of this family have been erroneously registered in the history written by the Reverend Thomas Warren, it is probable that the family have been mixed up with a London family who were wealthy merchants. There was a John and Alice Warren living in Cripplegate, London at the correct time and they named their children just as their forefathers and mine did. They were there until about 1656 when their last son [Joshua/Joseph] was born.
MARNHULL PROTESTATION RETURNS
1641ad
Both a Thomas and a Christopher Warren signed the protestation in Marnhull as did a John and William Warren. At that time, the Warren boys belonging to Christopher [married Alice Webb] would have been aged; Robert 26 years, John 24 years, Thomas 22 years, Christopher 18 years whilst William could not have signed because he had not yet reached age 18 years. If Christopher b 1623 went to Marnhull, he would have been about 36 years old when he married Elizabeth and sired George in 1659 and John in 1664, this though is guesswork.
It can be seen that the Warren family were strongly incumbent in Cornwall, Devon, Dorset, Somerset, Hampshire and Wiltshire from the earliest times after the Norman conquest.
My line appear to have been strongly connected to the Church and from about 1650 to 1800 were also involved in stone masonry and this work suggests the stone quarry areas of Southern England.
It is also noticeable that Christopher Warren who married Alice Webb and his heir Robert wanted to run very ancient churches, Christopher at Ilsington, Devon and Robert at Rame in Cornwall. Both churches were built dating back to the early 1200's.
For the American families who would usurp this line, please remember that Christopher Warren was born in 1585 and married Alice Webb in 1613 and did not become Vicar at Ilsington until 1621. His heir [Robert] was born in 1615 and his second son John was born in 1617.None of this family migrated to America.
BACK TO THE SYDLINGE NAME The Sydlinge family existed in Marnhull from at least the turn of the 16th century [1499-1500] and the first recorded use of Warren alias Sydlinge or vice-versa is seen in 1563 with the birth of Joane Sydlinge alias Warren.
This family appears to have been predominantly farm workers, although at least one Sydlinge [alias Pears] died with money to mete out in his will and was obviously a share farmer who was the son of a share farmer. A minor point comes into play here when one looks at this Robert Sydlinge alyas Pears, His will specifically states that his father was also a Sydlinge alias Pears and that his brother was a Sydlinge alias Warren [Thomas the elder] whilst his mother was Margaret Wadnam.
If the alias situation implied that they were fathered by a Warren or by a Pears, then Robert's mother surely had some explaining to do as she would have had sons by Warren, Pears and Wadnam all while her husband was alive?
Christopher Sydlinge who lived in Marnhull prior to 1571 [he died that year] may have been a Sydlinge alias Warren but it is not known for sure at this time. There were those who claimed only Sydlinge and those who claimed only Warren. There was also a Robert Sydlinge alias Warren at that time and it is unsure if Robert Warren and Robert Sydlinge alias Warren were one and the same but it is more likely that they were not.
It is possible that Robert Sydlinge [b c1518-20] also sired John Sydlinge alias Warren b c1539, Thomas Sydlinge alias Warren b c 1540 and William Sydlinge alias Warren b c 1542, seen below having their children. The Sydlinge line probably came into Marnhull somewhere in the late 1400's perhaps from Sidling/Sidlin, a parish in lower Dorset. They may have been an early branch connected to the Warren family who were driven out of their county by one thing or another.
Whatever the problem, they settled in Marnhull and by 1538 or not long thereafter, had begun to use the name Sydlinge alyas Warren although it appears that for the most part, they named their children Sydlinge without the alias, as the Clerk wrote them in as ie; John Warren son of John Warren Alias Sydlinge.
The Christian names in the Marnhull Warren family run just as they did in the Headborough/Ashburton Warren family and they were continued within my own line of John Warren born 1617 and so on. What is undoubted [by the Author] is that John Warren b 1617 did migrate into Marnhull about the time of the religious and civil war troubles of 1641.
Other Marnhull Warren families do not share the same desire to stick to the tradition of the Ashburton Warrens. An example of this is shown in my line, John [b 1617] was of Christopher [b1585] who was of William [b c1542], who was of Christopher a Churchwarden [b c1505-20] , who was of John Warren [b c1475] who was probably also a Churchwarden of Ashburton .
My line continues forward with John [b1617] followed by John b 1658, followed by Christopher b 1698, followed by Martin [3rd son] followed by Christopher, followed by Nathaniel and so, into modern times where names were not so religiously followed.
It should be noted that the family followed the traditions until the early 1800's and the names John, Robert, Richard, Thomas and Christopher, were dominant whilst other names were introduced via the father of the bride.
The names Robert, John,Thomas,Richard and Christopher prevail in my family line up until about 1800. William is used and so too is James and Charles with Nathaniel in there also.
The other known Warren families predominantly used George and William with James, Philip, Peter, Richard, Robert and the occasional Christopher [perhaps two in two hundred years] also.
As time went by, the Sydlinge family of farmers also used, on occasions, the surnames the other way round ie; Warren alias Sydlinge and later still perhaps adopted Warren on its own but this we shall see when we combine all birth, marriage and death records.
It appears that there were Sydlinge landholders and therefore it is likely that Warren members who were only small farmers, also took up share holdings with a Sydlinge and that may have been why the names were also found in reverse. Just how many Sydlinge members adopted the Warren name alone remains to be seen.
There also appears to be other family Warrens incoming after the troubles of 1640/2 and it certainly may have been the turmoil in England and the church that caused the migrations because it should be noted that many sections of the Warren family have, since the Norman period, been heavily involved in the church.
THE WARREN FAMILIES O F
MARNHULL
1840-1660
The Warren families of Marnhull.
The below families are shown [and color coded] as three separate families. The colour codes are; Blue for my own line, Red for the farmer line and Black for the third line. The family beginning with Christopher Warren married Elizabeth [Red code] about 1658 were probably related to my line below beginning [Blue code] with John b 1617 died 1698 who was probably of the Christopher and Alice Webb line of Ashburton and Ilsington
The third family belonging to Martin Warren married Elizabeth [Foyle?Black code] with perhaps the family George married Margery being connected in some way to the line Martin married Elizabeth.
I have no doubt that all three Warren families were related and that Marnhull became a center for migration from about 1450 to 1650.
MARNHULL WARREN FAMILIES
Joseph Warren b 1811 married Elizabeth Curtis 2nd April 1838 Children were; George b 1839 and Levi b 1843. Son of Martin Warren married Elizabeth.
THOMAS WARREN b c1821 m Lavinia? 1842.
Children were; Charlotte Zebra b 4th June 1843, This is the only child and there are no further records, may have moved out of county or only came to Marnhull to marry.
Children were;Edward b 1836, Simeon b 1837 and Reuben b 1839.Christmas Edward b 1848?.
Son of Edward Warren
This appears to be all the children this couple had and GF Edward was born of Martin and Elizabeth Warren in 1817.
WILLIAM WARREN b 1811, died 1878 m Mary Lambert 1833. Children were;William Henry b 1834 died 1861, Anne b 1836, Emmanuel b 1843. Son of Jacob Warren.
JOHN WARREN b 1799 m Martha Jones 11 August 1830.
Children were; Not registered in Marnhull in the 11 years following their marriage simply because they did not have any. John and Martha lived out their lives without children and were still around for the 1871 census but had probably died or moved out of Marnhull by 1881.ROBERT WARREN m Jane Moore b 1806 died 1862, married 15th August 1829. Children were; William Henry b 1832, died 1861. Julia b 1841, Robert b 1843. Son of Jacob Warren.
JAMES WARREN b 1808 m Christina Kendle 20th April 1829.
Children were; James b 1830 died, James b 1832, Giles b 1835, Robert b 1831, John b 1844, Thomas b 3-4-1847. son of Martin married Elizabeth.
JAMES WARREN [b 1783, died 1861 aged 79 years] m Ann Strickland b 1806 died 1859, They married 4th July 1826. Children were;James b 1832, John b 1834, Lucy b 1837, Elizabeth b 1841, Elijah Walter b 1843 died 1843.
son of Edward married Mary Jarvis.
LEVI WARREN b1797, died 1865 m Maria Curtis b 1799 died 1838 m 17th April 1823. Children were; Ann b 1825, James b 23rd November 1833,
CHARLES WARREN b1796, died 1866 m Sarah Hann @ West Stour 16th June 1819. Children were; Robert b 9th April 1820, Hannah b 12th May 1822. Son of Jacob Warren.
WILLIAM WARREN [farmer] b 1797 died 1822 m 1818 Sarah Galpin b 1797 William died January 30th 1822.
Children were; William b 1819, John b 1821,
Son of Thomas and Sarah
STEPHEN WARREN b 1781 died 1849 m Elizabeth b 1790 died 1868 married c1813
Children were; Mary b 1814, John b November 6th 1825. Son of Jacob Warren.
THOMAS WARREN b c1780 m Ann Jarvis married 20th April 1802
Children were; Son of Thomas married Sarah Howe
JOHN WARREN b1768, died 1848. m Ann Stone [Stokes] 22nd March 1800.
Son of John Warren married Sarah Chin.
MARTIN WARREN b c1762 died 1849 m Elizabeth Bisse? [Foyle?] b 1767, married c 1799/1800. Children were; John b 1801, died 1802. Ann b 1803, John b 1806, James b 1808, Joseph b 1811,William born 1814, died 1817, Edward b 1817.This Martin was a possible son of George Warren of Cornwall and was born out of Marnhull Parish.
MARTIN WARREN b 1778 m Mary Burge 21st April 1798.
Children were; Sarah b 30th July 1797, John b 1799 perhaps died 1802, Anna Maria b 1802, Christopher b 1804, Jemima b 1807. This Martin was the son of Martin Warren married Anna Maria Short.
JOSEPH WARREN b 1767, died 1839 m Martha Woodrow [b1761, died 1833] 24th July 1797. Children were; John b 1798 died c 1801, John b 1801 died 1874, Sarah b April 1804.
Son of George Warren
JAMES b 1751 and Hannah WARREN m c1786,
Children were; John b 1787 and James b 1797. Son of William married Ann HineSTEPHEN WARREN b 1769, died 1849. m Hester Longman 21st March 1796, Children were; Maria b 1798, John b 1804, Robert b 1806, died 1843. James b 1809, Eliza b 1812. Son of John and Grace Warren
THOMAS WARREN [farmer] b 1773 m Sarah 1794?
Children were; Samuel b 1794, William b 1797, Stephen b March 1799. Son of Thomas Warren and Sarah Howe
WILLIAM WARREN b 1768 m Elizabeth Curtis 26th January 1793. Children were; William b 1793 died 1822. Son of William married Grace Chant
The Australian line of Warren at this point leave Marnhull to set up in Southampton before the son of Nathaniel [Alfred Frederick Warren departed for New Zealand in 1860. Christopher is a stone mason and set his trade in Southampton near St Marys.
CHRISTOPHER WARREN B 1768 m Anna Maria Simm @ Southampton of Lymington Hampshire in 1788. Children all born at Southampton, Hants, were; Uriah b 1790, William b 1792, Elizabeth b 1794 died shortly after, Elizabeth Summer b 1795, Harriet b 1798, John Elisha b 1800, Carolina Isabel b 1802, Nathaniel Short b 1805.
Christopher was the Son of Martin Warren married Anna Maria Short at Marnhull, Dorset.
JACOB WARREN b 1755, died 1835 m Mary Hann 24th September 1791. Children were; Stephen b 1794 died 1857, Charles b 1797, Betty b 1803, William b 1810.
Jacob may have come in as a migrant.
EDWARD WARREN b1757, died 1840 m Ann White 7th May 1787, Children were; Simon b 1788, Reuben b 1790, Dinah b 1793, Simeon b 1796, Levi b 1798, Ann b 1802, Mary b 1804, Edward b 1807.
Son of James Warren.
WILLIAM WARREN b 1744 m Sarah Kendall 27th June 1779 Children were; Betty 1781, Ann b 1783, Robert 1786. Son of Thomas Warren.
JOHN WARREN b 1763 m Sarah Chin at Hinton St Mary, 12th April 1767. Children were;John b 1768,died 1848, Mary b 1770, Elizabeth Light b 1774.
JOHN WARREN b 1744 m Grace Gulliver. 11th August 1766 at Gillingham. Children were; Elizabeth b 1767, Stephen b 1769, Stephen b 1770, Grace b 1772. Son of William married Ann Hine
EDWARD WARREN m Mary Jarvis 20th August 1776.
Children were; Robert b 1777, Jane b 1781, James b 1783 died 1861, Leah b 1786.
THOMAS WARREN b 1741 m Sarah Howe 4th November 1763.Children were; Elizabeth b 1764, Sarah b 1765, James b 1770, Thomas b 1773, Mary and Esther b 1776, Mary b 1779, Son of Christopher Warren married Elizabeth Crow.
WILLIAM WARREN b c1741 m Grace Chant 1st December 1762. Grace already had a daughter Jane b 1756 who died the same year and later had a son named Jacob b 1762 who took the name Warren, he was probably William's son as the couple married in December of 1762. Other children were; Mary b 1764, Sarah b 1766, William b 1768, Mary b 1770, Elizabeth b 1772. Anne b 1774, Prudence b 1776, Hannah b 1777, Robert b 1780.
GEORGE WARREN m Ann How b1744, died 1822, married 2nd February 1762. Children were; William b 1762,died 1832, John b 1765, Joseph b 1767,died 1839 Esther b 1770, George b 1774 died 1867, Ann b 1777, Margaret b 1780, Lydia b 1782, Sarah b 1784.
MARTIN WARREN m ANNA MARIA SHORT 8th June 1761. Children were; Sarah b 1765, Anne b 1767, Christopher b 1768, Rebecca b 1771, Eli b 1773, John b 1775, Martin b 1778. Son of Christopher Warren married Elizabeth Crow. The Australian line of Warrens were taken out of Marnhull by Stone Mason Christopher b 1768 who migrated to Southampton about 1789, he married Anna Maria Simm of Lymington [about 1789[ who may have been related to the Marnhull Simm family.
JAMES WARREN b 1716 m Jane Goddard 18th April 1756.
Children were; Edward b 1757, Elizabeth b 1760. This James was the son of George Warren
THOMAS WARREN b 1718 m Mary Coombes, 18th January 1742.
Children were; William b 1744, Betty [Elizabeth] b 1746, Sarah b 1748, Ann b 1749, Robert b 1752, Jenny b 1758, Thomas and Matthew [twins] b 1761, John b 1763.
Son of George Warren
JAMES WARREN b 1716 m Sarah? c1742
Children were; Robert b 1743, Phillip b 1747. This James was the son of George Warren. He was widowed and later married Jane Goddard [see above].
STEPHEN WARREN b c 1720 m Elizabeth ? c1741.
Children were; Betty [Elizabeth] b 1742.
JOHN WARREN m Sarah Brine 25th June 1741.
Children were; Thomas b 1741, Stephen b 1746. Son of Christopher Warren married Elizabeth Crow.
JOHN WARREN b c1715 m Joan Salmon 4th December 1740.
Children were; Yet to be found.
WILLIAM WARREN b 1711 m Ann Hine 1st January 1734.
Children were; Anne b 1734, Virtue b 1736, Elizabeth b 1738, William b 1741, Mary b 1743, John b 1744, Robert b 1748, James b 1751, Thomas b 1754. This William was son of William married Joane in 1708.
GEORGE WARREN m Mary Down 29th October 1723.
Children were; William b 1733, George b 1734, died 1810 John 1737, Joseph b 1738, Mary b 1740, Thomas b 1742, Peter b 1744, Joshua b 1748, Isaac b 1757. Son of George and Mary [Coombe] Warren.
JOHN WARREN b 1695 m Mary Woolldridge 19th October 1723.
Children were; John b 1724 died 1724, Mary b 1726, Elizabeth b 1728, Ruth b 1731, Jane b 1735, John b 1738, Thomas b 1741, Stephen b 1746.
Son of John and Ruth Warren.
BARNABUS WARREN b c1696 m Martha Seins 2nd June 1723.
Children were; Elizabeth b 1723, Mary b 1724, Barnaby b 1726, Hannah b 1729. Son of George and Susannah Warren.
CHRISTOPHER WARREN b 1698 died 29th May 1785 aged 88 years m ELIZABETH CREW [02 Jun Xtopher Christopher, WARREN & Elizabeth CREW [more probably CROW] both of Marnhull 1722]. Very few marriages were registered in 1722 and this couple are not shown [ now found, having married at Okeford Fitzpaine on 2nd June 1723
02 Jun Xtopher [ Christopher ] WARREN & Elizabeth CREW both of Marnhul].
Children were; John b March 1723, Robert b 1727, Elizabeth b 1730 died 1730 , MARTIN b 1733, Thomas b 1735 died 1739, James b 1738 died 1739, Elizabeth b 1740 died 1740, Thomas b 1741, Mary b 1747. Christopher was the son of John and Ruth Warren.
GEORGE WARREN m Mary Coombe 9th April 1710.
Children were; George b 1710, Thomas b 1712 died ?, William b 1714 died 16th Feb 1718, James b 1716, Thomas b 1718 died 1718, Mary b 1721, Robert b 1722, Elizabeth b 1725, Joshua b 1727. Son of George and Susannah Warren.
WILLIAM WARREN b 1686 m Joane George 1st June 1708.
Children were; Elizabeth b 1708, Mary b 1710, William b 1711. Son of John and Elizabeth Durnford Warren. William [b1711] continued this line.
THOMAS WARREN m Mary Francis 24th December 1704.
Children were; This couple were from Gillingham and no trace of them has as yet been found there or in Marnhull after their marriage.GILLINGHAM COUPLE
JOHN WARREN m RUTH? c1693/4.
Children were; John b 1695, Robert b 1696, Christopher b 1698, Ruth b 1701, Mary b 1702. Son of John Warren [born 1617 died January 29th 1698]. Christopher and John continued this line.
GEORGE WARREN b 1659 m Susannah Gilbert 11th April 1686. Children were; George b 1687, Elizabeth b 1688 died 1689, Gilbert b 1693 died 1693, Barnabus b 1694, Joseph b 1697 died 1697, Susannah b 1700, Thomas b 1703 died 1703, Mary b 1704. Likely the son of Christopher and Elizabeth Warren. George [b1687 and Barnabus [b1694] continued this line.
JOHN WARREN b 16 m Elizabeth Durnford 25th August 1685.
Children were; William b 1686, Joanne b 1688, Mary b 1691, Thomas b 1694, Richard b 1696, John b January 1699 died 1699, Elizabeth b 1699 [Julian year] died 1701, John b 1702 died 1703. Likely the son born of of Christopher and Elizabeth Warren in 1664.
THOMAS WARREN m Joane ? c1682.
Children were; Thomas b 1683 perhaps married Mary Francis of Gillingham This Thomas may have also been an immigrant from Gillingham into Marnhull. It is also possible that Thomas was the son of
JOHN WARREN b 1656 m Jane Woodrow 5th April 1681.
Children were; Elizabeth b 1682, Mary b 1684 died 1684, James b 1687 , Katherine b 1691, John b 1695 died 1699, John b 1699, Anne b 1700. Possible son of William and Joane Warren and named two children [James and Elizabeth] after possible siblings.
Here, the Sydlinge/Sidlin line disappear [ perhaps migrating to Shillingstone? ] or died out, all three below had daughters but records are unclear that any surviving sons were born to them.
William Warren born 1650 and Mary born c 1655 died 1684 married c1676 son Philip b 1677 died young. Disappeared from records. Son of William married Ann.
William born 1644 and Jane b c 1650? died 1716 married c1673 Daughter Jane b 1674. William may have been the widower of Tamsin who died in 1672 and he possibly remarried to this Jane in 1673.
WILLIAM WARREN born 1644 m Tamsin who died in 1672 they married c1666. Daughter Thomasine was born 1667. There may have also been a son named David born to this couple in 1668 without registration but a burial is recorded for David in October 1669. A William died about ten days later on the 12th of October. Son of William married Joane Gane
The three Williams listed above are not surely placed, a William died in 1694 and another in 1670 and yet another in 1680 and another in 1669, it is not known in what order they were born or died or even if they all remained in Marnhull.
GEORGE WARREN m Margery? c1665.
Children were; Luce b 1660, Mary b 1663, Susannah b 1666, Margery b 1669. George and Margery came in from out of County, perhaps from Cornwall.
CHRISTOPHER WARREN [b c 1623-1637] m Elizabeth ? c1658. Children were; George b 1659 died 1675, John b 1664 died 1690. Christopher died 1695. This Christopher may have been related to Thomas Warren [see protestation returns for 1641/2 Marnhull pr's] and could have been 18 years old when the protestation was signed. He may have married out of the county but as there are six unrecorded years for marriages at this time [1656-1662] one cannot be sure. Christopher may have married Elizabeth Keynell [b1636] whose father's name was George Keynell and whom their first child may have been named for. It is doubtful that he was of the Sydlinge line As he is registered in 1664 only as Christopher Warringe father of John.
JOHN WARREN m [Margaret c1645 who perhaps died 1683? John died in 1670].
Children were; John b 1646, Alice b 1649, Mary b1652, Ann b 1654 died 1674. This John and his wife appear to be immigrants into Marnhull and with this we may have a found the beginnings of a family line. As John brought his wife with him, it is not known if he brought other children also. John born 1646 may have died but he does not appear on records in deaths or marriages. There is an illegible registration for a John in 1659 [June] that might suggest the birth of John married Ruth. Tying this John and Margaret into my line has its problems but they do have the Christian names to suit. John, Alice, Mary and Ann as their Children.
Parentage for Christopher m Elizabeth [married c1658] to be found, also William and Jane and William and Tamsin are yet to be found.
We have three or four Warrens at about this time who probably are connected, the above John [b c1615-20 [married Margaret]
Christopher [b c1620-37 [married Elizabeth [c1658] and George [b c1641] married Margery c1665. John, Christopher and George all appear from nowhere from 1646 to 1659 and were probably running away from the bad times.
John is the first to arrive and he is already married to Margaret, what is known of his family is listed above.
George is next to start his family and his firstborn is Luce [b 1660] then Mary [b 1661] Mary [b1662] Susannah [b1666] and Margery [b 1669] George may have lost his wife Margery in 1670 [registration for burial of M... Warren] but it may have also been his last born daughter of the marriage. His daughter or wife Margery died in 1692.
There is a registration for a George and Edeth having a daughter in 1674 named Edeth. A George died on the 6th of May 1675 and Edeth does not appear to have remarried, this may have been George married Margery.
Christopher m Elizabeth has history above.
WILLIAM WARREN b 1617 m Joane Gane 2nd May 1643.
Children were; William b 1644 died 1694, Thomas b 1646 died 1675, Elizabeth b 1649, Joan b 1652, James b 1653, John b 1658, Richard b 1662 died 1662.
William b 1617, died 1680 and Joane Gane Warren died 1681.
WILLIAM WARREN [born c1610, died c1683] m Ann ? c1634. Children were; Mary b 1635, may have died 1670? Alice b 1641, Agnes b 1644, Susannah b 1646, William b 1650. No register of Marriage or birth for William and Ann suggesting they were immigrants into Marnhull. It is possible that Ann died in 1674 aged about 60 years. Son of Thomas m Elizabeth Davidge
NICHOLAS WARREN [b 1605 to Thomas] married c1626 Susannah Davidge who died in 1663? Children were; Nicholas b 1627 died 1648, Susannah b 1629 died April 1642, Thomas b 1631 died December 1642, Jane b 1634 died 1642, Edeth b 1638. Nicholas senior died in 1664 Son of Thomas who married Elizabeth Davidge, The male line of this family died out with Nicholas jr in 1648,
WILLIAM SYDLINGE alias WARREN b 1585 m Joan Ridman 1611. Children were; Elizabeth b 1612, William b 1617,died 1617, Catherine b 1622 and Robert b 1626. This family died out!
JOHN SYDLINGE alias WARREN b 1582 [ m Marie Hatcher 1613. Children were John [b 1614] and possibly John b1615 although there is no death recorded for the first John and this may have been an error or Julian/Gregorian calender problem as no burials for Warren or Sydlinge are recorded for that [1614] year.This family also cease production at this time and probably DIED OUT..
JOHN SYDLINGE b 1582 alias WARREN m LUCY? c1612 John Sydlinge alias Warren died November 1642. Wife Lucie died 1645. Children were; Luce b 1617, Margaret b 1621 died 1622 as Warren. A John Sydlinge died in 1617 and may have been the son of John Sydlinge. This family also DIED OUT
THOMAS SIDLINE b c1580 m Elizabeth Davidge 1604.
Children were; Nicholas b August 1605. William b 1607.
Died out with Nicholas being the last.
THOMAS SYDLINGE b 1589? [the younger] alias WARREN m Luce Hilson c1606. Children were; Margaret b 1604 died 1604, Elizabeth b 1607, Thomas b 1608, died perhaps 1675. Rebecca b 1611 died 1637. Marie Sydlinge b 1613. Lucey Sydlinge [wife of Thomas Sydlinge] died in 1617
Thomas may have died about 1641.
JOHN SYDLINGE alias Warren m Anstice Kemphuke c1578?
Children were; Not known as this couple have no further records in Marnhull other than the possibility that this John died in 1588 at the same time as the Warren family below. DIED OUT OR LEFT MARNHULL.
JOHN WARREN Alias Sydlinge [b c1550 died 1617?] m Joane? c1576. Children were; Joan b 1579, John b 16th May, 1582. Edmund b1588 died 1588, Wife Joane also died in April 1588.
Henrie, although not registered except in death, was son of John Warren Alias Sydlinge, Henrie died in 1589. It appears that illness or accident struck this family down. The Clerk listed the family as Warren alias Sydlinge.
DIED OUT
THOMAS WARREN alias Sydlinge m Margaret Nicholls 1581 married 1st Margaret? c1581.Children to Margaret were; Thomas m Elizabeth Davidge in 1604?[b 1582 November] William b 13th October 1585 married Joan Ridman in 1611?, Nicholas b August 1586 died 30th October 1605.Wife of Thomas, Margaret died 1604.
Possible marriage
2nd m Emme [Emma] ? who died on 21st December 1632.
Children were; Rodigon b 1607, died 1611. Emme was married to a Thomas Warren alias Sydlinge. DIED OUT
ROBERT WARREN B 1562. No record of marriage for Robert in Marnhull c1585 or thereafter. May have attached Sydlinge to his name but no marriage recorded and may have died childless, he was certainly not Robert Sydlinge alias Pears who died 1596. No further records found.
ROBERT SYDLINGE B c1520-1540. m ?
Daughter Joane b 1563. Perhaps also a daughter Helenar Sydlinge married William Brownidge in 1571 and perhaps four other daughters Helenar m 1571, Marie born 1571, Allis m 1571, Avis m 1573 and Elizabeth m 1575 who married during the latter part of the 16th century. . This Robert may have had sons Thomas Sydlinge alias Warren, John Sydlin [married 1576] and/or John Sydlinge married Anstice Kemphuke in 1578 and/or possibly a William before records began in 1661 in Marnhull. Probably sired William, Thomas and John Sydlinge and perhaps a Robert Sydlinge jr.
THE VICARS
My own family held onto the tradition of joining the Ministry almost until the 1900's as my great great grandfather Nathaniel Short Warren and his brother were both ministers in Winchester, Hampshire. On reading the History of the Warren Family by Thomas Warren, it is amazing to see just how many Warrens from all branches were Vicars, Rectors, Churchwardens and Parish Clerks In the UK down through the ages.
SONS OF CHRISTOPHER WARREN m ALICE WEBB 1613 Rector of Ilsington in Devon.
Robert b 1615 Rector/Clerk at Maker and Rame in Cornwall
John b 1617 Clerk [at Marnhull?]
Richard c 1619
Thomas c 1621
Christopher c 1623
William c 1626
It is a very real possibility that Rector Robert Warren Born Ilsington in Devon and then Rector at Maker and Rame in Cornwall was brother to John Warren b 1617, both were Clerks and both were employed within the church and I believe both were sons of Vicar Christopher Warren of Ilsington in Devonshire. Other siblings in that family were Christopher b1623, Richard b1619 and Thomas b1621 with possibly William b 1626 and a girl Ann b 1614. It is noticeable that the children of Robert born of Christopher in 1615, named his children Robert [heir] b 1615 and John b 1617 [second born] and later Thomas, whereas John born [1617] named his firstborn John [heir] and also had Robert and Thomas among his children.
I find it hard to disregard the chance that the siblings in this family did NOT become wealthy merchants in London [as per the Reverend Thomas Warren's History of the Warren Family] and in fact, I feel that their migrations would have been away from Cromwell and his men rather than toward them. I also believe that John b1617, Richard b1619, Thomas b1621, Christopher b 1623 and William b 1625/26 must be properly researched as it is known that William has been mistakenly identified and therefore Thomas, Richard and Christopher must be studied for the same erroneous identification. It is known that all siblings in the family married and that there were 8 quarterings on their crest and arms. This of course was registered when the Heralds visited Devon in about 1623/26.
Robert Warren b 1615 had long wanted to take over as Rector of Rame church in Cornwall and he finally achieved that aim with the assistance of Nathaniel Brent just one day before he [Robert] died. He had earlier been given the church in Maker [Cornwall] where he remained until about 1658. John b1617 [I believe] migrated to Marnhull in Dorset and his other brothers [Richard, Thomas Christopher and William] I believe may have also stayed well to the south of London. It has already been shown and admitted by the Reverend that he was wrong about William [Sir? William] Warren b 1626 to Christopher and Alice Webb Warren and I believe that there may have been a mix up with the Ilsington family in Devon and perhaps a London Warren family maybe of Islington. I cannot see that a religious family living in Devon should have the heir become a Rector in Cornwall and that most of the children become mighty businessmen of note in London and Plymouth, except of course for John Warren b1617 who has no record at all shown except for his possible marriage to Alice Burgess in 1638.
It is noticeable that after Robert is described in the Reverend Thomas Warren's 'History of The Warren Family" that John get only a marriage entry [to Alice Burgess] at Exeter in Devon, Richard Warren b1619, has his marriage to Elizabeth Ivatt described along with his two sons Richard and John, both of whom went to a Merchant Taylors School in London. Thomas Warren b1621 has a long incorrect description given him but his birth date and marriage to a woman named Anderson are probably correct but he was not the Thomas Warren who was a prominent merchant of London. Christopher Warren b1623 is likewise listed with a quality background in Plymouth and his two marriages and entire family are shown so it is hard to dispute his listing. William Warren is listed as a Knight of London and The Reverend Thomas Warren changes this listing after being informed by the correct family that the listing was incorrect. And so now to the investigation into finding out what happened to this family who lived in the small village of Ilsington, Devon. Did they somehow become wealthy or did they remain loyal to the area in which they lived?
Marriage oddity in Marnhull
There were only ten marriages in Marnhull for the period 1600-1700 by persons using the names Sydlinge/Sidlin, Sydlinge/Sydlin alias Warren, Warren alias Sydlinge/Sydlin and just plain Warren. We know from records that the families Sydlinge and Warren were both in Marnhull from at least the end of the 15th century. Sydlinge alias Warren appears around the middle of the 1500's and remained that way until about 1640, a better idea of this can be seen in the Births, deaths and Marriages listed below.
Once the Sydlin/Sydlinge name disappeared from Marnhull [c1650], the name Warren increases dramatically with 12 marriages in the name Warren for the first 25 years of the 18th century [1700- 1726]. The period 1561 to 1599 also had several more marriages than the period 1600-1700. This again, may have been due to the severe problems occurring in England during the middle of the 17th century but is does appear very strange that so few marriages are found for the family Warren or even for the Sydlinge/Warren or Warren/Sydlinge families in Marnhull at that time.
It is of course possible, that the Sydlinge/Sidlin line died out in Marnhull but the name can be found in other counties in Dorset even up into the middle 1800's. Why they wanted to covet the name Warren is anyone's guess but perhaps a good researcher will stumble upon the answer in due course.
Many girls were born in the latter part of the Sydlinge alias Warren period in Marnhull and sudden illness have also caused problems during those hard times. Oddly, There were several marriages during the period 1561 to 1599 but only ten can be seen for the families during the period 1600 to 1700.
In my own Warren family, it was common to use the surname of the wife as a second name for girl or boy, perhaps this is one possibility for the Alyas/Alias being used in that time. It is clear that there were two families of Sydlin and at least two families Warren in Marnhull. It appears that they were also differed by the spelling at times. Waren or Warring on the Sydlinge Line, Waron or Warren on the Warren line and Warin was also thrown in. We shall try to see if this is correct as we go along but it is already noticeable that from about 1580 onward, the name Sydlinge became enmeshed with Warren via the "alyas" use, prior to this, Sydlinge was used alone as also was the Warren name.
It is plain to see from that time [1580] up until the civil problems of 1640/1 were over, that the two names were joined but once the situation was sorted out, the Warren name took over from Sydlinge very quickly in Marnhull.
CONFLICT AMONG MODERN DAY WARREN FAMILIES
Some small conflict has arisen between Warren families that lived in Marnhull since before 1700, the resentment has arisen due to one member wanting to follow a supposition, one that places them in the blood line of Fitzwarren/FitzWarin. This line goes back [of course] to Fulk FitzWarren of c1170 and his fight with King John of England. I had not researched this line before now and after some study on the matter, I can now see where the wish to be part of that line comes from.
Fulk FitzWarren and his line go back to William de Warren who was the first Warren to arrive in England from Normandy with the Conqueror. The name Fitz simply means "son of" and the very first FitzWarren would have been William De Warren I of England, who was the son of William De Warren of Normandy. Fulk FitzWarren had his castle in Shropshire [Whittington Castle] and his line stretched back to William De Warren the Ist Earl of Surrey.
How one could prove that the Sydlinge line were sullied by the Fitzwarrens is not at this time known but one can only say that there were both Warren and Sydlinge families in Marnhull during the 1500's and knowing that the Sydlinge alias Warren does not come into being until about 1550 or so, leads me to think that the Sydlinge line adopted that Warren name not because of some nobleman named Fitzwarren but because of intermarriage. After all, there were many aliases being used by many families and most were not from noblemen but came from farm holders who shared out their land on a rental basis.
2nd m Emme [Emma] ? who died on 21st December 1632.
Children were; Rodigon b 1607, died 1611. Emme was married to a Thomas Warren alias Sydlinge. DIED OUT
ROBERT WARREN B 1562. No record of marriage for Robert in Marnhull c1585 or thereafter. May have attached Sydlinge to his name but no marriage recorded and may have died childless, he was certainly not Robert Sydlinge alias Pears who died 1596. No further records found.
ROBERT SYDLINGE B c1520-1540. m ?
Daughter Joane b 1563. Perhaps also a daughter Helenar Sydlinge married William Brownidge in 1571 and perhaps four other daughters Helenar m 1571, Marie born 1571, Allis m 1571, Avis m 1573 and Elizabeth m 1575 who married during the latter part of the 16th century. . This Robert may have had sons Thomas Sydlinge alias Warren, John Sydlin [married 1576] and/or John Sydlinge married Anstice Kemphuke in 1578 and/or possibly a William before records began in 1661 in Marnhull. Probably sired William, Thomas and John Sydlinge and perhaps a Robert Sydlinge jr.
THE VICARS
My own family held onto the tradition of joining the Ministry almost until the 1900's as my great great grandfather Nathaniel Short Warren and his brother were both ministers in Winchester, Hampshire. On reading the History of the Warren Family by Thomas Warren, it is amazing to see just how many Warrens from all branches were Vicars, Rectors, Churchwardens and Parish Clerks In the UK down through the ages.
WARREN-WEBB
Below
is the Warren family of Ilsington via Ashburton in Devonshire, they are
the supposed line for my family and somewhere there will be found a
proof of this because of the prevalence of the same christian names and
the proximity of Ashburton and Ilsington to Marnhull in Dorset. SONS OF CHRISTOPHER WARREN m ALICE WEBB 1613 Rector of Ilsington in Devon.
Robert b 1615 Rector/Clerk at Maker and Rame in Cornwall
John b 1617 Clerk [at Marnhull?]
Richard c 1619
Thomas c 1621
Christopher c 1623
William c 1626
It is a very real possibility that Rector Robert Warren Born Ilsington in Devon and then Rector at Maker and Rame in Cornwall was brother to John Warren b 1617, both were Clerks and both were employed within the church and I believe both were sons of Vicar Christopher Warren of Ilsington in Devonshire. Other siblings in that family were Christopher b1623, Richard b1619 and Thomas b1621 with possibly William b 1626 and a girl Ann b 1614. It is noticeable that the children of Robert born of Christopher in 1615, named his children Robert [heir] b 1615 and John b 1617 [second born] and later Thomas, whereas John born [1617] named his firstborn John [heir] and also had Robert and Thomas among his children.
I find it hard to disregard the chance that the siblings in this family did NOT become wealthy merchants in London [as per the Reverend Thomas Warren's History of the Warren Family] and in fact, I feel that their migrations would have been away from Cromwell and his men rather than toward them. I also believe that John b1617, Richard b1619, Thomas b1621, Christopher b 1623 and William b 1625/26 must be properly researched as it is known that William has been mistakenly identified and therefore Thomas, Richard and Christopher must be studied for the same erroneous identification. It is known that all siblings in the family married and that there were 8 quarterings on their crest and arms. This of course was registered when the Heralds visited Devon in about 1623/26.
Robert Warren b 1615 had long wanted to take over as Rector of Rame church in Cornwall and he finally achieved that aim with the assistance of Nathaniel Brent just one day before he [Robert] died. He had earlier been given the church in Maker [Cornwall] where he remained until about 1658. John b1617 [I believe] migrated to Marnhull in Dorset and his other brothers [Richard, Thomas Christopher and William] I believe may have also stayed well to the south of London. It has already been shown and admitted by the Reverend that he was wrong about William [Sir? William] Warren b 1626 to Christopher and Alice Webb Warren and I believe that there may have been a mix up with the Ilsington family in Devon and perhaps a London Warren family maybe of Islington. I cannot see that a religious family living in Devon should have the heir become a Rector in Cornwall and that most of the children become mighty businessmen of note in London and Plymouth, except of course for John Warren b1617 who has no record at all shown except for his possible marriage to Alice Burgess in 1638.
It is noticeable that after Robert is described in the Reverend Thomas Warren's 'History of The Warren Family" that John get only a marriage entry [to Alice Burgess] at Exeter in Devon, Richard Warren b1619, has his marriage to Elizabeth Ivatt described along with his two sons Richard and John, both of whom went to a Merchant Taylors School in London. Thomas Warren b1621 has a long incorrect description given him but his birth date and marriage to a woman named Anderson are probably correct but he was not the Thomas Warren who was a prominent merchant of London. Christopher Warren b1623 is likewise listed with a quality background in Plymouth and his two marriages and entire family are shown so it is hard to dispute his listing. William Warren is listed as a Knight of London and The Reverend Thomas Warren changes this listing after being informed by the correct family that the listing was incorrect. And so now to the investigation into finding out what happened to this family who lived in the small village of Ilsington, Devon. Did they somehow become wealthy or did they remain loyal to the area in which they lived?
Marriage oddity in Marnhull
There were only ten marriages in Marnhull for the period 1600-1700 by persons using the names Sydlinge/Sidlin, Sydlinge/Sydlin alias Warren, Warren alias Sydlinge/Sydlin and just plain Warren. We know from records that the families Sydlinge and Warren were both in Marnhull from at least the end of the 15th century. Sydlinge alias Warren appears around the middle of the 1500's and remained that way until about 1640, a better idea of this can be seen in the Births, deaths and Marriages listed below.
Once the Sydlin/Sydlinge name disappeared from Marnhull [c1650], the name Warren increases dramatically with 12 marriages in the name Warren for the first 25 years of the 18th century [1700- 1726]. The period 1561 to 1599 also had several more marriages than the period 1600-1700. This again, may have been due to the severe problems occurring in England during the middle of the 17th century but is does appear very strange that so few marriages are found for the family Warren or even for the Sydlinge/Warren or Warren/Sydlinge families in Marnhull at that time.
It is of course possible, that the Sydlinge/Sidlin line died out in Marnhull but the name can be found in other counties in Dorset even up into the middle 1800's. Why they wanted to covet the name Warren is anyone's guess but perhaps a good researcher will stumble upon the answer in due course.
Many girls were born in the latter part of the Sydlinge alias Warren period in Marnhull and sudden illness have also caused problems during those hard times. Oddly, There were several marriages during the period 1561 to 1599 but only ten can be seen for the families during the period 1600 to 1700.
In my own Warren family, it was common to use the surname of the wife as a second name for girl or boy, perhaps this is one possibility for the Alyas/Alias being used in that time. It is clear that there were two families of Sydlin and at least two families Warren in Marnhull. It appears that they were also differed by the spelling at times. Waren or Warring on the Sydlinge Line, Waron or Warren on the Warren line and Warin was also thrown in. We shall try to see if this is correct as we go along but it is already noticeable that from about 1580 onward, the name Sydlinge became enmeshed with Warren via the "alyas" use, prior to this, Sydlinge was used alone as also was the Warren name.
It is plain to see from that time [1580] up until the civil problems of 1640/1 were over, that the two names were joined but once the situation was sorted out, the Warren name took over from Sydlinge very quickly in Marnhull.
CONFLICT AMONG MODERN DAY WARREN FAMILIES
Some small conflict has arisen between Warren families that lived in Marnhull since before 1700, the resentment has arisen due to one member wanting to follow a supposition, one that places them in the blood line of Fitzwarren/FitzWarin. This line goes back [of course] to Fulk FitzWarren of c1170 and his fight with King John of England. I had not researched this line before now and after some study on the matter, I can now see where the wish to be part of that line comes from.
Fulk FitzWarren and his line go back to William de Warren who was the first Warren to arrive in England from Normandy with the Conqueror. The name Fitz simply means "son of" and the very first FitzWarren would have been William De Warren I of England, who was the son of William De Warren of Normandy. Fulk FitzWarren had his castle in Shropshire [Whittington Castle] and his line stretched back to William De Warren the Ist Earl of Surrey.
How one could prove that the Sydlinge line were sullied by the Fitzwarrens is not at this time known but one can only say that there were both Warren and Sydlinge families in Marnhull during the 1500's and knowing that the Sydlinge alias Warren does not come into being until about 1550 or so, leads me to think that the Sydlinge line adopted that Warren name not because of some nobleman named Fitzwarren but because of intermarriage. After all, there were many aliases being used by many families and most were not from noblemen but came from farm holders who shared out their land on a rental basis.
MARNHULL BIRTHS DEATHS AND MARRIAGES 1560-1700.
Robert
Sydlinge alias Pears? b c1538 m
?? [d 1596?] It is unlikely that he was ever a Warren/Sydlinge although he refers to his godson as being a Sydlinge alias Warren, he names his father as Henry Sydlinge alias Pears. It is also noticed that some Sydlinge families do not take the Warren name but remain as Sydlinge only whilst others take Sydlinge alias Warren and still others take Warren alias Sydlinge. The Warren families appear not to make any change at all during this period.
Births Marriages Deaths
Christopher Sydlinge born c1506? Christopher Sydlinge bur 1571
Joane Sydlinge and Robert Gane 1563
No records for marriages until 1571
Allis [Alice] Sydling m Lawrence Ham Nov 1571
Avis Sydlinge m John Hodges July 1573 Nicholas Sydlinge bur 1573
Elizabeth Sydlinge m William Rose Sept 1576 Ellen Warren Alias Syd bur 1584
John Sydlin m ? Oct 1576 Edmund s of John Syd bur Jan 1588
John Sydling m Anstice Kemphuke Oct 9th 1578
Joan Sydlin m Robert Gawpin Nov 1581 Joane w of John bur 1588 Thomas Sydlinge m Margaret Nicholls Nov 1581 John Syd alyas W bur 1588 April
#Rebecca Warren m Thomas Thompson Nov 1593 Henrie s of John Syd alyas W 1589
Robert Syd alyas Pears bur May 1596
Joane d of Robert Syd b1563 Margaret Syd alias Warren b 1604
#Rebecca Sydlinge b1574 Nicholas s of Thomas Syd b 1605
Joan Warren d of John Warren b 25 Sept 1579. Elizabeth dau of Thomas the Young b 1607
Rodigon Sydlinge d of Thomas b1580 Rodigon dau of Thomas the Elder b 1611
John Warren s of John Warren b15 May 1582 John Sydlinge? m Marie Hatcher 1613?
Thomas Warren alias Syd b Nov 1582 Thomas Syd alias Warren m Eliz Davidge 1604
William Syd son of Thomas Syd b Oct 1585 William Sydling m Joan Ridman 1611
Nicholas s of Thomas Warren b Aug 28th 1585 Nicholas m Susan Davidge 1627
Edmund s of John Syd alias Warren b Jan 1588 Luce wife of Thomas Sydlinge b Nov 1614
Thomas s of Thomas Warren b May 1589 John Syd alias Warren b 30 Jan 1617
Nicholas s of Thomas Sydlinge b Aug 1605 Margaret Warren dau of John b Aug 1622
Rodigon Warren d of Thomas Warren b Jan 1607 Emme Warren w of Thomas the elder b 1632
William s of Thomas Syd b June 1607 Thomas the younger W b 14th Oct 1633
Elizabeth d of Thomas Syd b 1607 Thomas the Elder Warren b 30th Oct 1633
Thomas s of Thomas Syd sept 1608
Rebecca d of Thomas Syd oct 1611 #Rebecca Warren d of Thomas buried June 1637
Elizabeth d of William Sydlinge b Oct 1612
Marie d of Thomas Syd b Sept 1613 m George Marsh 1637
John s of John Syd Alias W b 1614
William s of William Warren b Jan 1617 m Joane Gane May 1643
Luce d of John Warren b March 1617
Margaret d of John Syd alias W b 1621
Catherine d of William Syd alias Warren b 1621 Nov
Katherine d of William Sydlinge alias Warren bap Feb 1622
Robert Syd s of William Sydlinge alias Warren b Mar 1626
Thomas s of Nicholas Sydlinge alias Warren b Dec 1632
Jane Warren d of Nicholas Warren b June 1634
Edeth d of Nicholas and Susannah b Feb 1638
Katherine d of Will Syd Alias Warren b Feb 1622
Robert s of William Sydlinge b March 1626
Thomas s of Nicholas Sydlinge a Warren b 1632 Dec
Jane d of Nicholas Warren b June 1634
Edeth d of Nicholas &Susannah b Feb 1638 Julian Warren bur April 1637
Alice Warren d of Will and ANN b Jan 1641
Agnes Warren d of William and Ann b Jan 1644
William s of William and Joane b Feb 1644
John Warren s of John and Margaret b 1646 Aug
Thomas s of William & Joane b 1646
Alice d of John and Mary Warren b March 1649
Elizabeth d of William and Joane Warren b Oct 1649
William s of William and Ann Warren b 1650
Mary d of John and Mary Warren b 22 May 1652
Joane d of William and Joane b 10th October 1652
Ann d of John and Mary Warren Oct 1654
James s of William and Joane Warren b Oct 1655
John s of William and Joane Warren b 1658
George s of Christopher and Elizabeth Warring b 1659
Richard s of William and Joane b 29June 1662
Mary d of George and Margery Warren b Sept 1663
John s of Christopher and Elizabeth Warring b May 1664
Susannah d of George and Margery Warren b Jan 1666
Thomasine d of William and Thomasine Warne b 1667
Margery d of George and Margery Warren b March 1669
Edeth d of George and Edeth Warren b May 1674
Jane d of William and Jane Warren b Oct 1774
Philip s of William and Mary Warren b Dec 1677
Thomas s of William and Mary Warren b Aug 1679
Elizabeth d of John and Jane Warren b Jan 1682
Thomas s of Thomas and Joane Warren b Oct 1683
Mary d of John and Jane Warren b June 1684
William s of John and Elizabeth Warring b Feb 1685
George s of George and Susannah Warren b 1687
Jane d of John and Jane Warren b May 1687
Joane d of John and Elizabeth Warren b 1688
Elizabeth d of George and Susannah Warren b Nov 1688
Katherine d of John and Jane Warren b 1691
Mary d of John and Elizabeth Warren b Sept 1691
Gilbert s of George and Susannah Warren b Sept 1693
Thomas s of John and Elizabeth Warren b January 1694
Barbabas s of George and Susannah Warren b Nov 1694
John s of John and Jane Warren b October 1695
John s of JOHN and RUTH Warren b October 1695
Richard s of John and Elizabeth Warren b March 1696
Robert s of John and Ruth Warren b December 1696
Joseph s of George and Susannah Warren b August 1697
CHRISTOPHER s of John and Ruth Warren b October 1698
John s of John and Jane Warren b January 1699
Elizabeth d of John and Elizabeth Warren b February 1699
Susannah d of George and Susannah Warren b June 1700
Ruth d of John and Ruth Warren b June 1701
Anne d of John and Jane Warren b July 1702
John s of John and Elizabeth Warren b March 1702
Mary d of John and Ruth Warren b March 1702
Thomas s of George and Susannah Warren b August 1703
Mary d of George and Susannah Warren b November 1704
Elizabeth d of William and Joan Warren b September 1708
Mary d of William and Joan Warren b April 1710
George s of George and Mary Warren b December 1710
William s of William and Joan Warren b February 1711
Thomas s of George and Mary Warren b 1712
ATTEMPTING TO CONNECT THE FAMILIES 1550-1700
Here we will only worry about the Warren-Sydlinge males beginning with John Sydlinge m in October 1576. Warren names are also inserted as shown on opc records.
THOMAS SYDLINGE
Rebecca Sydlinge b 1574
Joan Sydlinge born of Thomas 1576
Rodigon Sydlinge born of Thomas [12thMarch 1580]
JOHN SYDLINGE m ? Oct 1576 There are no birth records for this couple so they may have moved away from Marnhull
JOHN SYDLINGE m Anstice Kemphuke Oct 9th 1578 No Birth records for children of this couple unless;
Edmund Warren B 1588 but this may also possibly be attributed to John Warren [below]
JOHN WARREN m? daughter Joan b 25th September 1579-
son John Warren b 16 May 1582 and perhaps Edmund Warren born and died 1588.
Thomas Warren m? son John b 2nd December 1582
Thomas Warren alias Sydlinge m ?
Children were; Thomas b 25th November 1582
Son William Warren alias Sydlinge b13th October 1585
Nicholas Warren b August 1586
Thomas b 1589
William Sydlinge son of Thomas Sydlinge alias Warren [b October 1585-d Oct 1669]
Thomas and William both lived long enough to have families and so continued this line
Thomas Sidlinge alias Warren the younger m? son Nicholas b21st August 1605 son William Sydlinge alias Warren b 12th June 1607
Joane Sydlinge and Robert Gane 1563
No records for marriages until 1571
Allis [Alice] Sydling m Lawrence Ham Nov 1571
Avis Sydlinge m John Hodges July 1573
Nicholas Sydlinge bur 1573
Elizabeth Sydlinge m William Rose Sept 1576
Ellen Warren Alias Syd bur 1584
John Sydlin m ? Oct 1576
Edmund s of John Syd bur Jan 1588
John Sydling m Anstice Kemphuke Oct 9th 1578
Joan Sydlin m Robert Gawpin Nov 1581
Joane wife of John bur 1588
Thomas Sydlinge m Margaret Nicholls Nov 1581
John Syd alyas W bur 1588 April
#Rebecca Warren m Thomas Thompson Nov 1593
THOMAS WARREN C1540?
Births Marriages Deaths
Christopher Sydlinge born c1506? Christopher Sydlinge bur 1571
Joane Sydlinge and Robert Gane 1563
No records for marriages until 1571
Allis [Alice] Sydling m Lawrence Ham Nov 1571
Avis Sydlinge m John Hodges July 1573 Nicholas Sydlinge bur 1573
Elizabeth Sydlinge m William Rose Sept 1576 Ellen Warren Alias Syd bur 1584
John Sydlin m ? Oct 1576 Edmund s of John Syd bur Jan 1588
John Sydling m Anstice Kemphuke Oct 9th 1578
Joan Sydlin m Robert Gawpin Nov 1581 Joane w of John bur 1588 Thomas Sydlinge m Margaret Nicholls Nov 1581 John Syd alyas W bur 1588 April
#Rebecca Warren m Thomas Thompson Nov 1593 Henrie s of John Syd alyas W 1589
Robert Syd alyas Pears bur May 1596
Joane d of Robert Syd b1563 Margaret Syd alias Warren b 1604
#Rebecca Sydlinge b1574 Nicholas s of Thomas Syd b 1605
Joan Warren d of John Warren b 25 Sept 1579. Elizabeth dau of Thomas the Young b 1607
Rodigon Sydlinge d of Thomas b1580 Rodigon dau of Thomas the Elder b 1611
John Warren s of John Warren b15 May 1582 John Sydlinge? m Marie Hatcher 1613?
Thomas Warren alias Syd b Nov 1582 Thomas Syd alias Warren m Eliz Davidge 1604
William Syd son of Thomas Syd b Oct 1585 William Sydling m Joan Ridman 1611
Nicholas s of Thomas Warren b Aug 28th 1585 Nicholas m Susan Davidge 1627
Edmund s of John Syd alias Warren b Jan 1588 Luce wife of Thomas Sydlinge b Nov 1614
Thomas s of Thomas Warren b May 1589 John Syd alias Warren b 30 Jan 1617
Nicholas s of Thomas Sydlinge b Aug 1605 Margaret Warren dau of John b Aug 1622
Rodigon Warren d of Thomas Warren b Jan 1607 Emme Warren w of Thomas the elder b 1632
William s of Thomas Syd b June 1607 Thomas the younger W b 14th Oct 1633
Elizabeth d of Thomas Syd b 1607 Thomas the Elder Warren b 30th Oct 1633
Thomas s of Thomas Syd sept 1608
Rebecca d of Thomas Syd oct 1611 #Rebecca Warren d of Thomas buried June 1637
Elizabeth d of William Sydlinge b Oct 1612
Marie d of Thomas Syd b Sept 1613 m George Marsh 1637
John s of John Syd Alias W b 1614
William s of William Warren b Jan 1617 m Joane Gane May 1643
Luce d of John Warren b March 1617
Margaret d of John Syd alias W b 1621
Catherine d of William Syd alias Warren b 1621 Nov
Katherine d of William Sydlinge alias Warren bap Feb 1622
Robert Syd s of William Sydlinge alias Warren b Mar 1626
Thomas s of Nicholas Sydlinge alias Warren b Dec 1632
Jane Warren d of Nicholas Warren b June 1634
Edeth d of Nicholas and Susannah b Feb 1638
Katherine d of Will Syd Alias Warren b Feb 1622
Robert s of William Sydlinge b March 1626
Thomas s of Nicholas Sydlinge a Warren b 1632 Dec
Jane d of Nicholas Warren b June 1634
Edeth d of Nicholas &Susannah b Feb 1638 Julian Warren bur April 1637
Alice Warren d of Will and ANN b Jan 1641
Agnes Warren d of William and Ann b Jan 1644
William s of William and Joane b Feb 1644
John Warren s of John and Margaret b 1646 Aug
Thomas s of William & Joane b 1646
Alice d of John and Mary Warren b March 1649
Elizabeth d of William and Joane Warren b Oct 1649
William s of William and Ann Warren b 1650
Mary d of John and Mary Warren b 22 May 1652
Joane d of William and Joane b 10th October 1652
Ann d of John and Mary Warren Oct 1654
James s of William and Joane Warren b Oct 1655
John s of William and Joane Warren b 1658
George s of Christopher and Elizabeth Warring b 1659
Richard s of William and Joane b 29June 1662
Mary d of George and Margery Warren b Sept 1663
John s of Christopher and Elizabeth Warring b May 1664
Susannah d of George and Margery Warren b Jan 1666
Thomasine d of William and Thomasine Warne b 1667
Margery d of George and Margery Warren b March 1669
Edeth d of George and Edeth Warren b May 1674
Jane d of William and Jane Warren b Oct 1774
Philip s of William and Mary Warren b Dec 1677
Thomas s of William and Mary Warren b Aug 1679
Elizabeth d of John and Jane Warren b Jan 1682
Thomas s of Thomas and Joane Warren b Oct 1683
Mary d of John and Jane Warren b June 1684
William s of John and Elizabeth Warring b Feb 1685
George s of George and Susannah Warren b 1687
Jane d of John and Jane Warren b May 1687
Joane d of John and Elizabeth Warren b 1688
Elizabeth d of George and Susannah Warren b Nov 1688
Katherine d of John and Jane Warren b 1691
Mary d of John and Elizabeth Warren b Sept 1691
Gilbert s of George and Susannah Warren b Sept 1693
Thomas s of John and Elizabeth Warren b January 1694
Barbabas s of George and Susannah Warren b Nov 1694
John s of John and Jane Warren b October 1695
John s of JOHN and RUTH Warren b October 1695
Richard s of John and Elizabeth Warren b March 1696
Robert s of John and Ruth Warren b December 1696
Joseph s of George and Susannah Warren b August 1697
CHRISTOPHER s of John and Ruth Warren b October 1698
John s of John and Jane Warren b January 1699
Elizabeth d of John and Elizabeth Warren b February 1699
Susannah d of George and Susannah Warren b June 1700
Ruth d of John and Ruth Warren b June 1701
Anne d of John and Jane Warren b July 1702
John s of John and Elizabeth Warren b March 1702
Mary d of John and Ruth Warren b March 1702
Thomas s of George and Susannah Warren b August 1703
Mary d of George and Susannah Warren b November 1704
Elizabeth d of William and Joan Warren b September 1708
Mary d of William and Joan Warren b April 1710
George s of George and Mary Warren b December 1710
William s of William and Joan Warren b February 1711
Thomas s of George and Mary Warren b 1712
ATTEMPTING TO CONNECT THE FAMILIES 1550-1700
Here we will only worry about the Warren-Sydlinge males beginning with John Sydlinge m in October 1576. Warren names are also inserted as shown on opc records.
THOMAS SYDLINGE
Rebecca Sydlinge b 1574
Joan Sydlinge born of Thomas 1576
Rodigon Sydlinge born of Thomas [12thMarch 1580]
JOHN SYDLINGE m ? Oct 1576 There are no birth records for this couple so they may have moved away from Marnhull
JOHN SYDLINGE m Anstice Kemphuke Oct 9th 1578 No Birth records for children of this couple unless;
Edmund Warren B 1588 but this may also possibly be attributed to John Warren [below]
JOHN WARREN m? daughter Joan b 25th September 1579-
son John Warren b 16 May 1582 and perhaps Edmund Warren born and died 1588.
Thomas Warren m? son John b 2nd December 1582
Thomas Warren alias Sydlinge m ?
Children were; Thomas b 25th November 1582
Son William Warren alias Sydlinge b13th October 1585
Nicholas Warren b August 1586
Thomas b 1589
THOMAS SYDLINGE b c1555 The elder [died 1633 October 30th] married Margaret Nicholls 1582
Children
Thomas
Sydlinge born of Thomas Sydlinge alias Warren [25th November 1582] [d 1633 14 Oct ]Children
William Sydlinge son of Thomas Sydlinge alias Warren [b October 1585-d Oct 1669]
Thomas and William both lived long enough to have families and so continued this line
Thomas Sidlinge alias Warren the younger m? son Nicholas b21st August 1605 son William Sydlinge alias Warren b 12th June 1607
Joane Sydlinge and Robert Gane 1563
No records for marriages until 1571
Allis [Alice] Sydling m Lawrence Ham Nov 1571
Avis Sydlinge m John Hodges July 1573
Nicholas Sydlinge bur 1573
Elizabeth Sydlinge m William Rose Sept 1576
Ellen Warren Alias Syd bur 1584
John Sydlin m ? Oct 1576
Edmund s of John Syd bur Jan 1588
John Sydling m Anstice Kemphuke Oct 9th 1578
Joan Sydlin m Robert Gawpin Nov 1581
Joane wife of John bur 1588
Thomas Sydlinge m Margaret Nicholls Nov 1581
John Syd alyas W bur 1588 April
#Rebecca Warren m Thomas Thompson Nov 1593
THOMAS WARREN C1540?
Children;
Robert Warren b1562?
JOHN SYDLINGE b c1555 [married 10th October 1576 Anstice Kemphike]
John Warren born of John and Anstice Kemphike Warren alias Sydlinge [25 Sept 1579-d 1581?]
John Warren born of John Warren and Anstice? [16th May 1582-d 14 Oct 1617]
Edmund Warren alias Sydlinge son of John Sydlinge alias Warren [b January 1588-d Jan 1588] John the younger continued this line
Thomas Warren the younger, born of Thomas Warren [ Nov 1582- d 4 Oct 1633]
married Elizabeth Davidge 1604.
*Nicholas Warren son of Thomas Warren [b 28th August 1586-d 13th October 1605]
*Thomas Warren son of Thomas Warren the younger [b May 1589- d 5th May 1664]
John Warren born of John and Anstice Kemphike Warren alias Sydlinge [25 Sept 1579-d 1581?]
John Warren born of John Warren and Anstice? [16th May 1582-d 14 Oct 1617]
Edmund Warren alias Sydlinge son of John Sydlinge alias Warren [b January 1588-d Jan 1588] John the younger continued this line
Thomas Warren the younger, born of Thomas Warren [ Nov 1582- d 4 Oct 1633]
married Elizabeth Davidge 1604.
*Nicholas Warren son of Thomas Warren [b 28th August 1586-d 13th October 1605]
*Thomas Warren son of Thomas Warren the younger [b May 1589- d 5th May 1664]
There appear to be two or even three Thomas Sydlinge alias Warren in Marnhull at this time.
JOHN WARREN [b1582 December 5th] Born of Thomas Warren, they do not appear to register themselves with the name Sydlinge
Here, the above Thomas
Warren
refers to himself as Thomas Warren and his son as John Warren and not as Sydlinge alias Warren or Warren alias Sydlinge, this may have been done to
difference himself from Thomas Sydlinge alias Warren in Marnhull. This family who were using Warren only, may be the first actual Warren family to arrive in Marnhull or in fact it may be that this family dropped Sydlinge and changed to Warren but this is doubtful. They are perhaps of the Warren family suspected of migrating into Marnhull from Devon or Cornwall.
Thomas Warren alias Sydlinge the elder [b1582] m Elizabeth Davidge 1604
#Nicholas Sydlinge born of Thomas Sydlinge alias Warren [August 1605-d 5th May 1664]
#Nicholas Sydlinge born of Thomas Sydlinge alias Warren [August 1605-d 5th May 1664]
#William
born of Thomas Warren alias Sydlinge [1607- d 1669 or 1683]
Thomas Sydlinge [b 1589 ] alias Warren the younger
married Luce Hilson in 1606
Rodigen Warren female
born of Thomas Warren the younger [b Jan 1606]
Elizabeth born of Thomas the younger [1607]
Thomas born of Thomas the younger [1608-d 1675?]
Elizabeth born of Thomas the younger [1607]
Thomas born of Thomas the younger [1608-d 1675?]
Rebecca
born of Thomas the younger
[1611]
Thomas continued this line
[1611]
Thomas continued this line
WILLIAM SYDLINGE [b 1585 of Thomas married Joan Ridman [1611] Elizabeth born of William [b1612] William born of William [b1617-d 1669 or 1683] Catherine Sydlinge born of William [b Nov 1621] ? Katherine Sydlinge born of William B[Feb1622] ? Robert born of William [march1626- d ?] William Jr continued this line
JOHN SYDLINGE [b1582 of John Sydlinge alias WARREN, m Marie Hatcher in 1613 [d 14 Oct 1670?]
John
born of John Sydlinge alias Warren [March 1614-d Jan 1690]
Luce Born of John [1617]
Luce Born of John [1617]
Margaret
Sydlinge born of John [1621]
John to continue this line
John to continue this line
#2 NICHOLAS SYDLINGE [b1605-d 1648 or 5th May 1664] married Susan Davidge m 1627 Nicholas born of Nicholas [b1627--d1648 or 1664 May 5th] Susannah born of Nicholas [1629] Thomas born of Nicholas [b1631-d December 1641] James born of Nicholas [1634-d ?] Nicholas [b1627 d 1648 or 1664] appears the only survivor here.
William and Susannah m [1638] Children Edeth b 18th May 1638 This appears to be an incorrect entry as it sits just above Nicholas and Susannah and their daughter Edith [b18th May 1638] and appears to be a mistaken entry.
WILLIAM [b 1607] AND ANNE WARREN Mary born of William and Anne [1635] Alice born of William and Anne [1641] Agnes born of William and Anne [1642] Susannah born of William and Anne. No boy children [1646]
WILLIAM AND JOANE GANE WARREN [b 1617 m 1643 d 1680 2nd May] William born of William and Joane [1644] may have died 1683. Thomas born of William and Joan [1646] may have died 1675. Elizabeth born of William and Joane [1649] may have died 1652 of 1662 James born of William and Joan [1655] ? John Born of William and Joan [1658] may have died 1690 or 1703. Richard born of William and Joan [b1662-d Aug 1662]
MARNHULL WARREN FAMILIES OF THE 1600'S
During the 1600's, at least two families Warren migrated to Marnhull, Dorset from either Devon or Cornwall. It is thought that perhaps the religious upheaval in England at this time, contributed to this movement. As is known, the Warren family followed the King [Henry VIII ] in the change from Catholicism to Protestantism and perhaps this was enough to bring about a change of address for many Warrens. Here we will now try to separate the Sydlinge line from the direct line Warren families living in Marnhull. The below John Warren [married Margaret] is not recorded in Births or marriages in Marnhull and although the marriage is not shown, this is not unusual as many boys went outside their counties to find wives. It is unusual not to find his birth records if he was indeed born in Marnhull. I think that this John has a slight chance of being John b1617 of my own line but this is very slight indeed. On the IGI, John Warren [b1617] married Alice Burgess about 1638 and had children by her. Alice may have died around 1655 and John may have taken a new wife Margaret who may have presented him with a son at Exeter in 1658. This is only guesswork and has no real basis but it should be noted that John and Margaret had registered a small family for the period.
JOHN AND MARGARET WARREN
This John arrives in Marnhull at c1645 [civil war]
John
born of John and Margaret Warren [1646]
Alice
born of John and Margaret [1649] Mary
born of John and Margaret [1652]
There are both a John and a Margaret dying in Marnhull at about the right time for the end of their days and it is thought that this couple had only the three children listed above. John may have been previously married but this is uknown at this time.
The below William was perhaps born of William and Joan Ridman Warren [Sydlinge line] in 1617 making him 33 years old at the birth of his son William b1650.
There are both a John and a Margaret dying in Marnhull at about the right time for the end of their days and it is thought that this couple had only the three children listed above. John may have been previously married but this is uknown at this time.
The below William was perhaps born of William and Joan Ridman Warren [Sydlinge line] in 1617 making him 33 years old at the birth of his son William b1650.
WILLIAM AND ANN WARREN William born of William and Ann [1650-d ?]
The below William may have been born in 1607 of Thomas Warren and Elizabeth Davidge Warren of the Sydlinge line but he would have been 48 years old when they had their first child.
WILLIAM AND JANE WARREN Jane born of William and Jane INCOMING WARREN FAMILY/FAMILIES OF THE 1600.'S
John Warren [shown below] does not fit with records unless he was one of the records that were undecipherable in the Parish records book. He may have been John b 1614 of John Sydlinge alias Warren. Or he may have been an incoming Warren who also was escaping civil war problems.
JOHN
AND MARGARET WARREN
Alice Warren b 1649 of John and Margaret
Alice Warren b 1649 of John and Margaret
Ann
born of John and Margaret [October 1654]
Mary born 1652
The
Sydlinge name disappears and Warren is adopted after this
period.
Please note that no Warrens of the name Christopher or George appear to have been previously used at Baptisms [Although one Christopher is seen in 1641 with Thomas] and that there now appear two new Warren Families in Marnhull
CHRISTOPHER
AND ELIZABETH WARREN son George born 1659 and son John born 1664 [Possible Sydlinge line]
A
Christopher Warren is recorded in Protestation Returns for 1641 it is
believed that this Christopher b c1600-25 was the unrecorded son of
Thomas Sydlinge alias Warren. This Christopher may have been the
father of John b1664 and George
born of Christopher and Elizabeth in 1659. It is also a possibility that this Christopher may have been the brother of John b 1617. If this is so, then Christopher b 1623 would have married Elizabeth about 1657 making him 34 years old
The below George Warren may have been a brother or cousin to Christopher Warren [above] but as there is no other earlier record for a George Warren or Sydlinge in this Parish, so it is unsure if this is the case.
George and Margery Nowell Warren were married in Cornwall about 1658 but it is unsure if they are the same family. Sadly, there are only two or three marriages registered for the years 1656 through 1664 so finding this couple is proving difficult but the Warren-Nowell marriage does fit in with three earlier children being born in Cornwall.
We also have a:
GEORGE WARREN married EDETH. Here also, is an addition to the problem for this line as there is no further registration for this couple. But there is a death of a widow Edeth Warren about 1650
George and Margery Nowell Warren were married in Cornwall about 1658 but it is unsure if they are the same family. Sadly, there are only two or three marriages registered for the years 1656 through 1664 so finding this couple is proving difficult but the Warren-Nowell marriage does fit in with three earlier children being born in Cornwall.
We also have a:
GEORGE WARREN married EDETH. Here also, is an addition to the problem for this line as there is no further registration for this couple. But there is a death of a widow Edeth Warren about 1650
GEORGE
AND MARGERY [Nowell ? ]WARREN
Luce Warren b of George and Margery [1660 Aug]
Luce Warren b of George and Margery [1660 Aug]
Mary
born of George and Margery [1663]
Susannah
born of George and Margery [1666]
Margery
born of George and Margery [1669]
Thomasine [b1667] born of William [b1644?] and Thomasine Warren
JOHN [b1658]
AND JANE WOODROW WARREN The above John was born 1658 of William and Joane Warren Elizabeth
born of John and Jane Woodrow Warren [1682]
Katherine to John and Jane Warren [1691] John born of John and Jane Woodrow Warren [1695] Joan born of John and Jane [1699]
Katherine to John and Jane Warren [1691] John born of John and Jane Woodrow Warren [1695] Joan born of John and Jane [1699]
Ann
born of John and Jane [1702]
GEORGE
AND SUSANNAH GILBERT WARREN
George
Born of George and Susannah
[1688]
Gilbert
born of George and Susannah [1693]
Barnabas
born of George and Susannah [1694]
The George Line runs back like so;
George Warren [b 1734] married Ann How 1762. His children were; William [b1762] John [b 1765] Joseph [b 1767] George [b 1774] Ann [b 1777] Mary [b 1780] Lydia [b1782] Esther? [b 1784]. his father was
George Warren [b 1710] married Mary Down in 1734. His Children were: George [b 1734], John [b 1737] Joseph [b 1738] Mary [b 1740] Thomas [b 1742] Joshua [ b1748] Isaac? unsure if Isaac goes here [b1757] The father of George [b 1710] was:
George Warren [b 1686] married Mary Coombes in 1710. His Children were: George [b 1710] Thomas [b 1712] William [b 1714] James [b 1716] Thomas [b 1718] Mary [b 1721] Robert born 1722] Elizabeth [ b1725] William [b 1733] The father of George [b 1686] was:
George Warren [b 1659] married Susanna Gilbert in 1686 His known children were: Susannah [b 1700] Thomas [b 1703] Mary [b 1704] and George [b 1687] other children prior to1699. were Gilbert b c 1691 Barnabas b c1693 and Joseph b c1695.
His father was possibly;
Joseph
born of George and Susannah [1697]
We now know that the George line of Warren goes back to Christopher Warren married Elizabeth c1658 but are still unsure if it is connected to the Sydlinge line. The George line does proceed through until the present day but the line is hard to prove back past the middle of the 16th century.
Susannah
born of George and Susannah [1700]
The George Line runs back like so;
1776-75
George Warren [b1774/5] married Susannah Pine @ Stalbridge Dorset 1795, Children were William [b1795] Robert [b 1797] Marrah [b 1799] John [b1809] Peter [b 1804] Ann [b 1807. The father of George m Susanna Pine was:
George Warren [b1774/5] married Susannah Pine @ Stalbridge Dorset 1795, Children were William [b1795] Robert [b 1797] Marrah [b 1799] John [b1809] Peter [b 1804] Ann [b 1807. The father of George m Susanna Pine was:
George Warren [b 1734] married Ann How 1762. His children were; William [b1762] John [b 1765] Joseph [b 1767] George [b 1774] Ann [b 1777] Mary [b 1780] Lydia [b1782] Esther? [b 1784]. his father was
George Warren [b 1710] married Mary Down in 1734. His Children were: George [b 1734], John [b 1737] Joseph [b 1738] Mary [b 1740] Thomas [b 1742] Joshua [ b1748] Isaac? unsure if Isaac goes here [b1757] The father of George [b 1710] was:
George Warren [b 1686] married Mary Coombes in 1710. His Children were: George [b 1710] Thomas [b 1712] William [b 1714] James [b 1716] Thomas [b 1718] Mary [b 1721] Robert born 1722] Elizabeth [ b1725] William [b 1733] The father of George [b 1686] was:
George Warren [b 1659] married Susanna Gilbert in 1686 His known children were: Susannah [b 1700] Thomas [b 1703] Mary [b 1704] and George [b 1687] other children prior to1699. were Gilbert b c 1691 Barnabas b c1693 and Joseph b c1695.
His father was possibly;
Christopher Warren b c1620-30.He married Elizabeth ? c1658 he had a son George born in
Marnhull in 1659 but as there are no George or Christopher Warrens named
among children of this line prior to 1659, it appears odd that we must
accept this Christopher as being the father of George b 1659 especially
as the children named in the above George line follow in the same tradition of naming ie; Thomas
George, Mary, Joseph, Robert and John as the rest of this George line of Warrens,
whereas Christopher Warren had two children only perhaps George b 1659 and John b
1664.
If we look at the families of George b 1659 [married Susannah] and George b 1686 [above] married Mary Coombes, we can see the similarities in the naming of their children. We do not know if Christopher Warren had more children afterward as he disappears from Marnhull with no further records yet found by the Author. There is a death for a Christopher Waron on the 28th of January, 1695 and this may well be him but it is strange to see only two children from his marriage. His wife was probably the Elizabeth Warren who died in 1701. There was a death for another Elizabeth in 1689 but this was probably the daughter of George Warren [Elizabeth born in 1688].
If we look at the families of George b 1659 [married Susannah] and George b 1686 [above] married Mary Coombes, we can see the similarities in the naming of their children. We do not know if Christopher Warren had more children afterward as he disappears from Marnhull with no further records yet found by the Author. There is a death for a Christopher Waron on the 28th of January, 1695 and this may well be him but it is strange to see only two children from his marriage. His wife was probably the Elizabeth Warren who died in 1701. There was a death for another Elizabeth in 1689 but this was probably the daughter of George Warren [Elizabeth born in 1688].
George Warren [b1637]
Married Margery Nowell 1651 @ Camborne Cornwall,
Children were John Warren Married Elizabeth Rule and perhaps George
Married Susannah Gilbert.
The above is supposition as George Warren married Margery is not a proven record at Marnhull, simply because this George has arrived from outside Marnhull and as yet, we do not know for sure from whence he came.
Father of George married Margery Nowell was George Warren born @
Calstock Cornwall. His father was John Warren born c 1605,
married Margaret Molynieux His father was Edward de Warren
married Dorothy Booth. The Warrens of this line would be happy as it dates with surety back to the Normans.
JOHN
AND ELIZABETH DURNFORD WARREN The
above John was born of Christopher and Elizabeth Warren in 1664 children were Mary, Thomas, Richard, John, Elizabeth,John [twins?] Mary
born of John and Elizabeth [1691]
Thomas
born of John and Elizabeth [1694]
Richard
born of John and Elizabeth [1696] John born
of John and Elizabeth [5th January 1699] died 23rd January 1699
Elizabeth b 1699 died 1699
Elizabeth b 1699 died 1699
John
born
of John and Elizabeth [1702]
Why this John enjoys family records and yet his mother and father are so sparsely recorded is not known.
Why this John enjoys family records and yet his mother and father are so sparsely recorded is not known.
Warren
Family 1617-2010
Although
members of the Warren Family from the Sydlinge branch appear to have
been in Marnhull, Dorset for some period of time before the middle
1500’s, they begin to disappear as Sydlinge or Sydlinge alias Warren by 1640. the name Sydlinge though, does appear in other counties in Dorset in the 1800's so that name does not entirely disappear from records everywhere in the South of England and there is even one Sydlinge who returns to marry in Marnhull during the 1800's.
The Warren family of Stonemasons do not appear in Marnhull until sometime after 1640. In fact, I believe that at least two Warren families enter Marnhull at about this time and it is thought that the political situation in England caused the migration of certain families into that valley town. The first of these educated migrants in our line was:
JOHN WARREN [b1617] probably at Ashburton in Devon to Christopher and Alice Webb Warren [m1613] their son John b1617, married Alice Burgess in 1838 and perhaps had a second marriage to Margaret [Bayley Fowle?] around 1655. The below John may have been born at Exeter in 1658 and was baptized at St Martins Exeter during that year. It is not absolutely certain that John lost his wife Alice but there appears to be no record of a wife beloning to him in Marnhull/
Children
The Warren family of Stonemasons do not appear in Marnhull until sometime after 1640. In fact, I believe that at least two Warren families enter Marnhull at about this time and it is thought that the political situation in England caused the migration of certain families into that valley town. The first of these educated migrants in our line was:
JOHN WARREN [b1617] probably at Ashburton in Devon to Christopher and Alice Webb Warren [m1613] their son John b1617, married Alice Burgess in 1838 and perhaps had a second marriage to Margaret [Bayley Fowle?] around 1655. The below John may have been born at Exeter in 1658 and was baptized at St Martins Exeter during that year. It is not absolutely certain that John lost his wife Alice but there appears to be no record of a wife beloning to him in Marnhull/
John
Warren born 1617 @Ashburton Devon
Wife
Alice Burgess m1638 @Exeter Devon. Parish Clerk and Churchman at Marnhull. He died January 23rd 1698/9 Children
JOHN
born 1658 AND RUTH WARREN
It
is proven by two Dorset Historians that the above John was born of
John [b1617] and that the above John was born in 1657 or 1658, dying in
1752 at age 94 years [Headstone and Parish records received by John
Hutchins in 1774 only 18 years after the death of the above John
Warren]. His marriage to Ruth will be found perhaps in Devon once that county has allowed the records to be placed online.
Please note; Children were; John born of John and Ruth [1695] Robert born of John and Ruth [1696] Christopher born of John and Ruth [1698] Ruth born of John and Ruth [1701] Mary Born of John and Ruth 1702.
Please note; Children were; John born of John and Ruth [1695] Robert born of John and Ruth [1696] Christopher born of John and Ruth [1698] Ruth born of John and Ruth [1701] Mary Born of John and Ruth 1702.
John Warren
b 1658 @ Exeter Devon? Parish Clerk at Marnhull Wife
Ruth m c1694 England Children
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